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Monday, 16 February 2009

MQM versus Taliban / Jamaat-e-Islami: An interesting dialogue between an Imran Khan lover and a secular Pakistani

http://www.imrankhanexposed.com/IKE/images/QaziAndImran.gifhttp://www.geocities.com/muslimapocalyptic/taliban.jpghttp://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/altafhussainbritishpassport2.JPG

A relevant op-ed by Abbas Ather



Ghost Of TK said:

Bangladesh starts War Crimes investigations against Jamat Islami.

AFP: Bangladesh arrests suspected war criminals: police


Jamat-e-Islami ponders public apology for siding with Pak in 1971 … Hmmmm…. I wonder if their fearless upright leaders in the stump of Pakistan will own up to the actions of their comrades in arms in B’Desh???

Let the verbal gymnastics begin!

...

tharapolitics said:

Meeting with Governor Sindh, Dr. Eshrat, is our party-base contact with MQM. Mian Muhammad Shahbaz Sharif
So PML-N is fooling nation again by playing double game. Keep it up Shareef BRADRAN. But it was enough for nation on playing double game in judiciary movement but you have started another dirty politics… Shame!!!!
Tere (MQM) sarkar main pahunchay to sabhi aik howay!!!!!!!! F..ck MQM , F…k who contact with MQM….

....

rasheed said:

@tharapolitics,

Shahbaz Sharif is not in Nine-Zero, he met the Governor of Sindh in Governor House, and Sindh is a province of Pakistan, not of India or Israel.

Are you saying that top officials of provinces should pull guns between them? Is this your real agenda here to isolate Sindh from other provinces?

Shahbaz Sharif has been constantly strengthening relations with people of all provinces. He recently started Hospital and University in Balochistan and also sent several humanitarian trucks to NWFP for people of Swat, therefore there is nothing special in meeting a top official of another province.

...


Ghost Of TK said:

@rasheed: Unless it is done exactly as Qazi Hussain and the JI MUNAFIQS say, it is wrong.

If the JI chief is langotia yar with MQM leader’s father,THAT is okay.

if IK goes and talks with Altaf Hussain, it will be “revolutionary”. If Qazi goes and meets Altaf kalia, it would be “ground breaking” .. IF JI gets 10 of it’s workers in harms way and gets 3 dead bodies out of it, they will be “martyrs” …

If Shahbaz Sharif goes and meets a government counterpart, it is the biggest treachery that one could ever commit.

Altaf Hussain will have “cooties” as long as Qazi and Imran say he has “cooties”, then overnight, he will be okay. It is kindergarten attitudes like these that Pakistani people are starting to take this crowd less and less seriously.

...


Malek said:

@tharapolitics
you seem to find all news…no matter how small they are in any known or unknown newspaper…which in hindsight appear negative about NS/SS

here is my analysis on IK….partly taken from one of the posts on this site with huge modifications

Imran wants to ride on the Lawyers Movement to somehow get to power. He used these techniques number of times in the past but failed miserably. Before 1999 his slogan was education education and education could bring revolution…………..but then he jumped on to the bandwagon of Mush and claimed to support him becuase 6/7 point agenda given by Mush was what he saw as best for nation and in line with his party’s stance…..at the time he claimed that name of Short Cut Aziz was proposed by him too……..then again when the public sentiment moved towards lawyers movement that then became IK’s movement…..the new slogan was of course PTI always stood for free judiciary!

IK doesn’t have the following to manage a small march let alone a long march or Dharna himself so he wants PMLN’s men on whose strength he could fulfill his agenda…..he thinks he can use Sharif’s…….i dont think Sharif’s have ever bothered to even mention IK in any comments…such is the importance of this flip flop hero

IK also has a vice-president known as Hamid Khan who is supposed to be a leading figure in lawyers movements…..but was very strange that when all leading lawyers were arrested after 3 Novemeber he was the only one who wasnt…strange stagnage stagnge……..he has also never really appeared on any TV shows nor issued any statements in favour of party or explained the party stance ….which IK may prefer to do on his own???

IK and Qazi missed the boat by boycotting last elections so they want to bring down a democratic system without even considering the loss to nation ….as early as possible so they could use public emotion behind Lawyer’s Movement to achieve their personal goals…….. good luck thats not going to happen because awaam are very aware of who is right and they have seen many IK’s before…eg Asghar Khan, Qadri etc etc


...

Shirkuh said:

I don’t mind SS meeting a leader from a terrorist outfit, but what is the purpose of the meeting? If SS had been the leader of the country or a member of the ruling elite then there could be a reason. The same goes if someone at the helm of affairs is asking him to mediate a solution with regard to dismantle the terrorist organization behind many hundred killings of innocent people. In which capacity is SS meeting a leader from one of the most dangerous terrorist outfits in Pakistan? Is it that difficult to answer with manners or do we need to go back to the usual dirty politics of blame game. Until now the Butt-club totally failed to show that they are different from PPP-Jiyala club. Grow up and show some good deeds and tell us the reason behind the SS move. Maybe there is a sound and good reason behind his moves. And remember that two wrongs don’t make a right!

...

  • Ghost Of TK said:

    @xtra: The point is that JI has always been loyal to the FeudoCratic Kleptablishment (aka ‘the establishment’) and this ‘establishment’ of ours has been the most dedicated slave of the Zino-American interest.

    So, if the Baloch are taking up arms, for their rights then how is it different than “mow-low-naw” fazlulla taking up arms against the Pakistani state? Not much.

    But Mao-Lao-Naw fazlulla is a hero for JI and the Baloch Republican army are “AjjunT of thee hindooos” … exactly the p.o.v of the establishment and it’s organs like the ISI.

    When Dr. Afia Siddiqui is abducted… no big research is required before the JI declares everyone in this country traitor. When 44 Baloch women are disappeared and baloch people make noise about it, JI files it under “RAW PruppoGhunda”

    Again, an attitude in line with the establishment and in the strategic interests of the Zino-American nexus.

    You can rape, pillage and kill as long as you do it in the name of some “islam”. If you ask for your rights in the name of culture, language, heritage … then you are ‘raandah-e-dargah’ , ‘traitors’, ‘agents’.

    P.S. Go ask bengalis, they are much better off separated. As a matter of fact, it was the Bengalis who came up with the whole idea of Pakistan to begin with. West Pakistani areas were opposed to this “pakistan” till the last few months/years. The areas that actually wanted pakistan (bihar, up) stayed in india but the trouble makers made their way to Pakistan.

    First they raped this nation in the name of Islam under the banner of JI and now they’re doing it under the banner of MQM. However, the fight has always been ETHNIC and that meant ethnic superiority of the so-called UP/Bihari race over the oafs that lived in these them here parts.

    But the bengali’s were too smart for this sh!t and they figured out that the whole thing had been hijacked by an establishment which primarily consisted of Bihari/UP ethno-supremacists! And the first act of ‘laying down the law’ was the adoption of Urdu as the language. I mean WTF!!! language spoken by the 2% elite which consisted of 90% of the burucracy became the language of a nation!

    this is the biggest clue as to who has been incharge.

    JI is an ethnic party, it uses the vehicle of Islam to further the interests of the UP/Bihar constituency. MQM was formed when people wised up to the sh!t JI was upto after the 78 debacle. On Cue!!

    MQM uses the vehicle of “educated middle-class” to further the interests of the same UP/Bihar constituency.

    JI supported “Pakistan” because Pakistan was being sodomized by their ethnic brethren. They were being controlled by a tiny minority. This tiny minority is America’s bitch. Therefore JI is america’s bitch.

    There is nothing “Islamic” about this ethnic party just as there is nothing “middle class/Qaumi” about MQM. One uses idiots of Islamic persuasion and the other uses idiots of ‘middle class/muhajir’ persuasion to further economic domination of this country through agitation, killing and fascistic politics of fear.

    Welcome to balkanistan!

  • Shirkuh said:

    What a sad development. Day after day many of us have been bashing the jiyala culture, and rightly so, because it sidelines the ability to think independently. As earlier mentioned there can be a good reason to meet MQM leadership just like many jiyalas thought or at least had hoped for when Zardari had his first contacts with MQM. Many of them had hoped for ensuring an MQM as a mainstream political party rather than a terrorist outfit, but what happened? The government was maybe in a sense making a god move, but the way it was carried and the NO-result proved that it was only about power politics. There was no good planning or any good governance or vision involved. Now SS is also making contacts with the same terrorist outfit and many of us rightly ask about the nature of the contact. What is the purpose? Please answer instead of behaving like PML-N jiyalas. None of you (Rasheed, Malek or GoTK) bothered to explain the move of SS, but instead each of went on the offensive in “good” jiyala style by making a counter attack i.e. you told each and everyone of us that you are the same id!ots as we are and hence you don’t have the right to ask questions. You never bothered to explain AND went on the offensive by pointing towards opposotion faults === Jiyala behaviour.

    I agree with GoTK that many ethnic groups have genuine grievances, but IMO that has nothing to do with ethnicity alone. It has something to do with who is holding the power and who has the biggest ressources/numbers. You find humiliated Punjabies as well as all other ethnic groups.

    Btw: There is maybe no such thing as a “pure” Punjabi. There far too many ethni groups within Punjab to make it as unified entity.

  • tharapolitics said:

    To blind followers of Shareef Bradaran ’s FORTUNE -PML-N, Malek, rasheed “JIN BHOOT”
    Wrong is wrong, either it is committed by zardari , mushi or Aalijah MIAN MUHAMMAD SHAHBAZ SHARIF. Ghost, you get essance of “sazish” from all Jamatia’s actions, criticizing all actions of Great Khan, always bombarment on PEEPEEPEE but when sharif bradran did something wrong, then “ap ke monh main ghugian par jati hain”. What the f..king, idiotic way of criticim of all SHAREEF BRADRAN’s “madah” adopt!!!!!
    Time is coming when SHAREEF BRADRAN and Altaf choren chatni wala will hug each other, then you all will claim it is a “Revolutionary step taken by Baray Mian sb ya Chotay mian sb”… ;)

  • fanaticmulla said:

    Despite of the fact that MQM is a terrorist organization baray mian sahib made two times coalation Govt. with them , then after 12th may when IK challaenger altaf geedar mian sahib said I support IK and now noone will make an alliance with MQM..it is all on record, how comes when can deny those facts and chotay mian sahib is saying “yeh MQM say Rabton Ka Agaz hay”

    Mashallah..aagay aagay dekhiye hota hay kaya”

    IK is very clear and determined but problem is that he has soft corner for JI ..which is a curse for Pakistan..I can bet as soon as IK will distance himself away from JI..he will get more support…

    but at the moment PML (N) is showing twists by distancing away from lawyers and by meeting MQM…

  • Ghost Of TK said:

    I’m not sure why people must assign someone to a party label before criticising their views. If you don’t like what I said, just dissect that instead of trying (unsuccessfully) to apply some label to me.

    having said that, I don’t understand this logic propounded by some people.

    When the taliban commit acts of terrorism and behead people in public, we are asked to do “muzaakirat” with them.

    When someone talks to MQM’s political side, the same people who support “dialogue with the taliban terrorists and sovereignty usurpers” are crying foul about someone talking to a “terrorist outfit”.

    So, let me see: Taliban are NOT terrorists? if they are, why can’t these people shut up about “talking to them”… “they are our brothers”… “do dialogue with the islamo-faggots! please!”

    Is MQM more terrorist than the Jamat Islami ?
    Is MQM more terrorist than the Pakistan Army?
    Has MQM rendered more innocent Pakistani’s than the “patriotic” agencies of this land (ISI Etc?)

    When JI does exactly what their progeny aka MQM does, we are distracted away from JI’s terrorist activities in Mansoora and in Punjab University etc. (not to mention support of the terrorist throat slitting taliban)

    MQM and JI are both equally terroristic. Jamat Islami is being prosecuted right now for WAR CRIMES in Bangladesh. Just like MQM was declared involved in terroristic activities in a Canadian court. (ofcourse the racist view would be that Canadian court’s opinion of MQM is more valid than the court of some brown monkeys called Bengalis)

    So, lets see: Talking to MQM terrorists (like shahbaz sharif) BAD
    Talking to JI terrorists (like Imran Khan does) GOOD! (cuz it’s immi bhai you know!)

    Let us get some perspective here, by looking at the “terroristic” activities of two groups:

    Group A: The MQM “Terrorists”

    I am no MQM lover, but at the very least MQM has NOT done the following:

    1. Openly challenge sovereignty of the Pakistani state (to the contrary, they are more than willing to play inside the sandbox … albiet with some violence … we can discuss the quality and quantity of violence if one wishes)

    2. Openly created a parrallel system of courts and state institutions. This is defined as TREASON.

    3. Openly slaughtered the soldiers of the Pakistan Army (though I have very little love lost with this Army of ours)

    4. Have not done henious things like killing citizens for being female, for not wearing shalwar hight enough, detonation of 200 schools!

    Group B: The Taliban “Terrorists”

    While the Taliban have done all these atrocities and more.

    … cheesy sappy music here …

    Now let us see the behaviour of the JI operatives pretending to be Imran Khan’s “workers”. and how they advise us to behave with these two groups.

    Group A (aka the MQM terrorists) : Nothing should be done with them, whomever talks to them is a “traitor”, they are terrorists, despite the fact that they are trying to integrate themselves in the political process, have members of National Assembly, Provincial assembly, Federeal Ministers. Have NOT attacked installations in the last 15 years, have not massacred State security personnel en-masse, have not killed women for just being women, and most of all, are really into education and have not dynamited a single school in their jurisdiction.

    With these people, they say we shouldn’t keep any contact.

    Group B (aka The Taliban Faggots): They should be acquiesced to, We should have dialogue with them, even though they have monstrously beheaded people, killed women for working, detonated girls and boys schools, attacked state installations, massacred Pakistani Army soldiers ad-infinitum. They are our muslim brothers blah blah blah.

    With these monsters, they say we should not only keep contact, we should forgive all their crimes and accept their demands on prioirity basis.

    All I gotta say is: Pull your head out of your asses, try not to contradict yourself, and try to make some sense for once. PLISSS!

  • Shirkuh said:

    @GoTK

    Your answer is a little bit too smart. Nobody is endorsing JI. In fact I think you know my opinion about JI quite well indeed, but maybe you just had to make a less than a convincing effort to make that (broken) link :-)

    I am no JI fan and nor is IK. You know that too very well, but somehow you have a hatred towards IK. I fail to understand why. There is an alliance between PTI and JI - just like PTI had a one point alliance with PML-N, who broke the alliance and went away. Btw just like PPP also did. What can we expect from old and tries horses? It is altogether expected what both PML-N and PPP will do to hang on to power. PTI can make an alliance with PML-N if they have a common agenda and so can they do with any other political party.

    You have tirelessly been trying to make a link between PTI and JI. I think you are wayward here. If there had been that close links, then what is the need to make a new party (PTI)? Then IK should have joined JI or another mullah party.

    The extremists in Swat and anywhere else also need to be dealt with, but the way the government is carrying out the American policies will do NO wonders. We need to isolate the hardcore extremists by having the ordinary people on our side. Let’s have the same politics for MQM too, but we don’t need to pardon killers and hardcore fanatics/terrorists!

    Use of violence: I don’t think JI is alone in this business. I think both PPP and PML-N have used violence to achieve their goals too. They have had their power bases all of them, but none of them have used violence like MQM has done it. As I mentioned earlier, I don’t mind that SS has meetings with MQM, but there should be a clear (good) purpose apart from power politics. If the aim is to make MQM a mainstream party I think it’s a good initiative, but if it is yet another political game to hang on to power then I say “lakh laan@t” both on him and those who endorse such steps. Apart from that PML-N promised not to have contacts with MQM. What happened since the think it vital to have contacts with a terrorist outfit?

  • Ghost Of TK said:

    @shirkuh: fair enough. I’ll take your assertion at face value, PTI and JI are not the same. IK’s actions are more and more gravitating to JI’s agitational politics, and I find it is destructive for him. I don’t “hate” him … if there is anyone I “hate” it is probably those beardo’s who are using the name of Islam to malign, weaken and humiliate Islam and the Muslims. They are being used by the west in a process of “Jihadi Immunoresponse” against the Muslims themselves. It is not mere coincidence that every time a Muslim nation is to be destroyed, these faggots raise their violent heads, give the EXACT pretext that the western powers need at that particular juncture in history and then conveniently dissolve themselves after the Muslim nation has been subjugated, humiliated and destroyed.

    I am their eternal enemey! (FWIW!)

    I agree with you that PPP, PML(N/Q/F/G/A-Z) have all used violence. Most of All JI has used violence. They were part of war crimes in 71, and the top leadership of JI (Maudoodi was alive at the time) has always been in “West Wing” because the west wing has been the “base” of the ethnic elite which has ruled Pakistan for 61 years … Punjabi’s have taken most of the blame for it, but things became much more clear when a Muhajir Jurnail was catapulted into power by a Muhajir Corps. Commander of Karachi and who put a Punjabi PM with 2/3 majority into jail like a common criminal (Wrongfully! I might add.)

    Nawaz sharif’s humiliation put a crack in “The Myth of Punjabi Establishment”. The establishment has NEVER been under p;unjab. It has always consisted of ethnic Bihari/UP elements both in Military, Civil, Judicial and Intelligence hieararchies. THAT is the hidden hand that always fvcks things up and always works for the foreigner! and JI is in cahoots with this element! This is why IK will be well advised to stay away from these clowns, but he keeps getting sucked in more and more into this abyss.

    Coming to the crimes committed by various parties. The point I’m trying to make is that talking to one “designated” terrorists is just as bad as talking to another.

    On the scale of terrorism, MQM is less guilty than the Taliban.
    They’ve killed less people
    they’ve bombed less schools
    they’ve killed less Pakistani Soldiers
    They’ve challenged Pakistani State Sovereignty less often
    They’ve showed propensity to work within the broken political system
    They’ve BEHEADED way less innocent people than talibs.

    Yet you (on various occasions) and the JI operatives consistently advocate talking to the bigger criminals (Taliban) while you cry foul when someone talks to the lesser evil.

    This is the double standard (IMO) that I’m pointing to.

  • Shirkuh said:

    @GoTK

    “Yet you (on various occasions) and the JI operatives consistently advocate talking to the bigger criminals (Taliban) while you cry foul when someone talks to the lesser evil”

    NO, I am not saying that you should have double standards. You “conveniently” left out my comments on this issue: I wrote this:

    “The extremists in Swat and anywhere else also need to be dealt with, but the way the government is carrying out the American policies will do NO wonders. We need to isolate the hardcore extremists by having the ordinary people on our side. Let’s have the same politics for MQM too, but we don’t need to pardon killers and hardcore fanatics/terrorists!”

    Where have I stated that we should talk with only one entity?

    On top of that you HAVE to bear in mind that we have two completely different scenarios. The first one with the so called Talibans and other fractions, They have had their own areas, where the government has had a very little influence for ages – be it the PAK government, the British, the Mughal etc. All of a sudden Moshe got a revelation that we need to have “law and order” in those areas. His gods told him to go to war and ensure that Pakistans laws are supreme in all over Pakistan and hence he sent his army to crush the Taliban. What did he achieve? Instead of dealing with a few hundred extremists you have several thousand of extremists. What can we do? Once again. We need to isolate the extremists and ensure that we deliver security and peace to the ordinary citizenns . Isolate them and destroy the hardcore extremeists! The same goes for MQM! I repeat the same method for MQM i.e. isolate the hardcore MQM terrorists! Why? Because we should avoid a wide spread bloodbath in KHI, and that we can only achieve by letting most of the MQM workers in the mainstream politics. At the same time we must not be soft on the hardcore extremists within MQM either. We need the same yardstick for both groups of extremists – be it Taliban or MQM!

    “This is why IK will be well advised to stay away from these clowns, but he keeps getting sucked in more and more into this abyss.”

    Yes, they are clowns and I fear that they WILL back stab PTI, but they will time the back stabbing to crucial point. History shows it WILL happen. The question is; is PTI prepared for it or can they prepare it? Could they prepare for PML-N part their ways and ran away from agreements on non-participation in elections? Or NO talks with MQM? PTI is still hoping that PML-N will take full part in the Long March and dharna, but what will PML-N do? Will they back stab or will they participate in the dharna. PML-N is a big and significant party in Pakistan and it matters what they do, so time will tell whether they p!ss in their pants to keep them warm or they act like brave men and stand tall! In short as long as any party stays on track PTI will stand together with them in spite of the risks of being back stabbed. PML-N has done it and most probably JI will do it. I had wished that PML-N could stand shoulder to shoulder with PTI, but alas and alack. They have also been doing too much flip-flop politics. This is unfortunately the most common way to “perform” in PAK politics

  • Ghost Of TK said:

    @shirkuh: I knowingly ignored the “hedging” you did in the current thread. It is your stances in the past that I’m talking about. Also, I wish your approach was as nuanced when talking about .. say.. Aitezaz Ahsan as it is talking about the Taliban (and AA hasn’t publicly beheaded anyone as far as I can remember …;-) I remember you declaring AA as a “fifth columnist” in one fell swoop while you write paragraphs about the nuances of the different kind of taliban, the unicorn types, the shiny twinkle eyed taliban, and the not so twinkle eyed taliban (the ones who behead people and then eat their livers right in the khooni chowk… before going to their house and killing their male relatives for good measure.)

    Well, good for you. At least you see the value of nuance in some situations.

    Similarly, MQM and Talibs are qualitatively different. You are comparing apples and oranges, issuing fatwas against shehbaz sharif for talking to a “terrorist outfit” while you write another 3 paragraphs on how the good taliban should be separated out from the bad taliban.

    I don’t know, maybe this recent ‘agreement’ will bring peace to Swat… and separate the good from the mediocre and totally heinous taliban. It at least bothers me that these people have allowed a group of criminals amongst themselves who commits these crimes and the talibs themselves can’t seem to figure out which is which and we need a shariat ordinance to see which ones still keep fighting (and thems woulds bees these bads ones!)

    hm… I see how this works.

  • Ghost Of TK said:

    I don’t have a problem “talking” to the talibs. The problem is that their strings are somewhere else.

    They are not fighting for nifaz-e-shariat, they are busy creating fitna. All these talks are just itmam-e-hujjat and then these kazzabs and purveyors of fitna-o-Fasad should be dealt with.

    Last time they broke the agreement based on some ludicrous claims that the govt had arrested a waziri talib.

    This one they’ll break because a bird was flying with both wings in their territory and therefore the agreement is null and void. Never mind all that maskara that the bird saw!

    That US agent aka the talib spokesperson, one “Muslim” Khan was already giving the aeen-baeen-shaeen answer on Islamabad tonight!

    THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF PEACE IN SWAT!

    Talk all you want for all I care. Talking is good, but to people who have any morals. These FAGGOTS are NOT those people. These munafiqs think they’ve got a shot at Islamabad. Little do they know that they are mere pawns. But no matter, they’re gonna try anyway… it is because their masters want a pretext for war against Pakistan.

    And the beardo always abides!

  • source: pkpolitics.com

3 comments:

Tazeen said...

bihari/UP super racists!!!

this is beyond hilarious ... where did this exchange take palce?

Abdul said...

Taz: it is indeed hilarious yet thought provoking. that's the beauty. the multilogue took place at pkpolitics.

Khaled Faroqi said...

Hatred against MQM is not a new thing to us as the feudal lords + Army General and Mullahs ruling and ruining this country for the last 60 years can't stand against MQM and its philosophy of middle and lower middle class rule for the country.

The leaders like Nawaz etc are so itched about MQM because MQM politics is based on people and infact MQM delivered more then any other party even imagine.

MQM took the Politics of karachi from the hand of ISI and Punjabi Establishment so how ISI Jamat and punjabies can stand in MQM favour?

@ Tazeen
Such MQM bashing can only be found on punjabi Nationalists sites like pkpolitics where you would be ban if you say anything logical or against Iftikhar Chaudhry and Imran Khan and in favour of MQM.
if you don't beleive me join the site and experienced the same.

:0)

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