ANP deal with TNSM in Swat: A critical perspective

Can ANP afford to offer more sacrifices against a ruthless enemey (ISI-Taliban allaince)?

ANP to uphold Swat peace deal, says Asfandyar

Saturday, February 21, 2009 By Tauseef-ur-Rahman PESHAWAR: Central President of the Awami National Party (ANP) Asfandyar Wali Khan on Friday said his party would prefer quitting ministries to withdrawal from the Swat peace deal under pressure. “We’ve a commitment to the Pakhtun nation about the restoration of peace on their land and will not pay heed to the reservations of the Nato about the deal,” Asfandyar said while talking to media persons at the residence of late MPA Alamzeb Khan, who was assassinated in a bomb attack in Momin Town, last week. The ANP chief said he was more concerned about safety and security of his people than what other forces believe or think. He said the ANP would abide by the peace agreement in Swat and would fulfil the commitment made by the party with Pakhtuns for the restoration of peace. He said the United States had accepted the peace deal which was evident from the statement of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. He said the deal was in accordance with the Constitution of Pakistan and they would convince the world and address their concerns. Answering a question, the ANP chief said the provincial government had yet to send the draft of the Nizam-e-Adl Regulation to President Zardari for approval. To a question about amendments to the Constitution, Asfandyar said the matter would be sorted out soon after getting two-thirds majority in the Senate. Earlier, Asfandyar Wali met family members of late Alamzeb Khan and offered Fateha for his departed soul. (The News) http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=20484

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I am shocked

I am shocked at the ANP government in the NWFP for agreeing with a banned TNSM party for the resolution of the conflict in the area. How can one negotiate with a banned entity? If the TNSM imposes its brand of Sharia, it would be terrible for secular parties of Pakistan since only fundamentalists would be elected from that area. And there would be no room for the women of the area. Rather than roping in the leaders of the TNSM, the government is talking to them. What guarantee is there that this wouldn't inspire religious zealots in the other areas of Pakistan? Parties like the ANP and the PPP shouldn't support such things. This would only give official cover to the banned parties to start the Talibanisation process with more fervour and enthusiasm. It is quite sad that the government has changed its stance. These laws would be another blow to the already fragile situation in Pakistan. Our economy is on the brink and the country is on the anvil of civil war. Appeasing terrorists who blow up schools and chop off people's heads is no way to solve our problems; the writ of the state should not be compromised. If the laws were brought into place, it would mean that there would be two kinds of laws in the country. If we concede this, we will go on conceding and there would be no hope for this nation and the country will disintegrate. The government keeps on rambling about democracy and how democratic Pakistan is. If that is truly the case, then why weren't these laws and this deal discussed in the provincial assembly? This should have been brought into the assembly and then discussed. I just hope that good sense prevails and the laws are not implemented. (Fawwad Shafi from Lahore, The Frontier Post)

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Some relevant comments

Utmankhel1 said:

Whether the deal works or not is decided in GHQ not by Fazlullah.

From the look of it, this does not sound an agreement by any standards. It seems more like Sufi Mohammad is feeling guilty for his role in starting this bloody game and now since he is dying he wants to undo some of his dirty work.

So far as ANP is concerned, well they did not have any option left.

1) They sent army to curb militancy, Army did the opposite; out of the 2700 killed in Swat, 100 are militants while 2500 are civilians. There is no point continuing the military operation.

2) Taliban’s representatives like Imran and Qazi were shouting full throttle for dialogue, and the right-wing media was out fully supporting them, so ANP had to do that.

3) ANP is trying to strip Taliban of any legitimacy in their demands. Sharia was one, though everybody knows it is strategic depth and not shariat which is the motive.

AClarionCall said:

This agreement is only to buy time before Taliban terrorists re-group themselves. Imagaine an agreement on a blank piece of paper. What a Joke! Pakistan ka Khuda Hafi

Utmankhel1 said:

AClraionCall,

Beg your pardon, but do you really think Taliban needs to re-group ? They are strong and stable so why re-group ? ? ? ?

http://thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=20424

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=163154

The News story has confirmed, that Musa Khankhel has been killed by Army/ISI.

The only way out is to demolish this whole evil structure of Army otherwise no hope ………..

sal said:

You never negotiate from a weak position. This agreement is no different from the past agreements done in North Waziristan etc. This just gives the extremists time to re-group and advance.

Another thing to ponder, if we go around telling the world that we are secure and we can maintain and protect our nuclear assets, what kind of signal this surrender sends to the rest of the world. We just gave up our territory to a group of thugs. If we can’t even control these worthless Taliban germs, then how are we to protect our nuclear assets in case of an invasion from a foreign country. Why should anyone believe us that we are competent when we obviously are not.

What we need is a sustained effort of a media blitz against the extreme ideology promoted by these loonies, a re-education of the masses about basic concepts of jihad, tolerance, Adal -o- ehsan, etc. We need to teach our idiot brothers and sisters out there that no 70 virgins are waiting for them if they blow themselves up and kill even one innocent person. At the same time, instead of maligning out military and security agencies, we need to use them to infiltrate the mosques, and madrasahs that are operated by the militants and identify the leaders and the next in command and the next in command and the next in commend and finish them off. Instead of coming in to our towns with roaring tanks an blazing guns, we need to use reconnaissance, and sharp shooters to eliminate them one by one. All the same time educating and propagandizing the true intentions of the militants to the masses. Of course a little governance and job creation would also help the local people.

The reason why we remain silent when the extremist talk about our faith with their perverted interpretations si quite simple. It is unchallenged because somehow, deep down, we too believe that perhaps music is haram, that singing is haram, that maybe, women should stay home behind curtains. After all, we all have read or heard about those ahadith, haven’t we. It is the twisted interpretation of these ahadith that is the culprit. Unless we equip ourselves with the correct interpretation and the knowledge and at the same time, garner the courage in ourselves to reject a false and weak hadith that is polluting everything, we stand to loose our country to these anarchists.

AClarionCall said:

@Utmankhel1

Have you ever thought who is making Talibans stronger?
Have you ever thought who is supplying Talibans arms and logistics?
Have you ever thought who is giving Talibans financial support?
Have you ever thought who is providing Talibans moral support?
Have you ever thought who is behind Talibans?

Have you ever thought why our nation is fast becoming pr0-Taliban?
Ask yourself these questions first then you will realise why Talibans are so strong (and getting stronger) and have become such a headache for our society. W need more than a Panedol tablet to get rid of this headache. I bet this weak agrrement will be an another futile exercise to bring peace in entire NWFP and FATA.

Wrong policies of last 30 years have given immense boost to extremism throughout our country especailly NWFP region where so-called champions of Islam have used it for their own vested interests. Our nation as a whole has become hostage to misleading slogans of Islam where decency and tolerance have no place. Suicide murderes are praised and their inhuman acts are justified through absurd arguments using Hadess and Quran. There is a shower of sympathy in our society for people who are burning schools and blowing up mosques even fuenarls. If one does not follow a particular brand of Islam will be declared Kafir by another group. This is the pyche of our nation where people fear to oppose Taliban brand of Islam. Our limited knowledge of Islam is a big drawback for this nation. 90% people have read Quran but never understood it because they read it in Arabic not in Urdu. Unfortunately we are losing a whole generation of our youths in the name of extremism and the writing on the wall is very disturbing for the future of this nation.

May Allah bless Pakistan

Utmankhel1 said:

AClarion,

Sorry if i misunderstood you. I have been following Swat’s situation and ANP’s stance on that. I was critical of the first deal that ANP did with Fazlullah in April, because i knew the nature of those militants and my view point was that the deal provided them with legitimacy, which they did not deserve.

I am supporting ANP on this deal for few reasons.

1) ANP had no way out. Army was not willing to eliminate terrorists and were deliberately causing huge civilian casualties. So ANP was failed by army and with each passing day the sufferings of ordinary people were increasing due to that military operation. So ANP was left with only two options;either invite NATO or try something else. Sufi Mohammad is the something else.

2) Sufi Mohammad, so far as i read him, is fully on-board with ANP and is sincerely trying to solve the problem. By sitting opposite to Fazlullah he will definitely weaken his standing in eyes of people.

3) In case the deal fails, ANP will be at the previous position, so no loss.

4) These negotiations will shut the barking mouths of Qazi Imran Khan, who were bent upon misguiding people.

fanaticmulla said:

Aclarioncall

totally agree with you ..yes i have seen people in media justify every inhuman act…Hamid Mir is one, Javed Ch is another idiot and there is a group n iSI and ex generals who support talibans..i am sure that sooner or later whole NWFP will be under control of Taliban with the help of some present and ex ISI Mullahs and some media guys who present suicide bombers as heros

Utmankhel1 said:

fanatic …….

I think it’s already under control of the militants. They can drag anyone out of his home and kill him.

The only thing we need is to aware people of this drama, although, most of them already know it. Anyways, the night is not gonna last for ever. This ISI/Army is doomed sooner or later.

Read more...

Mr. Holbrooke, in order to understand the situation in Pakistan, you need to have a grip on the Mullah-Military Alliance in Swat....

A dangerous trend — Talimand Khan

Why has the security apparatus failed to cut the militants’ supply lines; how come random journalists can talk to Fazlullah but security forces are unable to track him down; and if the state’s helplessness is genuine, how was the administration able to successfully hold general elections in Swat?

Swat, the paradisal valley that once attracted throngs of tourists, has been devastated by the insurgency that gained momentum in 2007.

The military has already conducted two concerted drives to root out extremist elements, and is now in the midst of a third. Each time, natives were told that this would be the last operation. Yet the extremists return and so does the military. Civilians then face the brutalities of the militants on the one hand and collateral damage on the other.

The people of Swat have never been extremist in their outlook towards religion. Even today, as evidenced by surveys, virtually the entire population of the valley abhors the militants.

That said, there is an extremely dangerous sentiment that is setting in among the people: anger and resentment at the state security apparatus’ inability to tame the militancy. Indeed, increasingly, the people of Swat are finding holes the state’s explanations of why this is so, and are growing alienated from the army. This is the real problem, whose repercussions could be dire in the long run.

Let us view the situation from the perspective of the Swati people.

There are three popular explanations provided for the Swat insurgency.

First, that a legal vacuum prevailing due to a dysfunctional judicial system allowed the Taliban to step in, with the people remaining indifferent. Proponents of this view argue that after the merger of Swat district with Pakistan proper and the imposition of the PATA regulation, a legal vacuum was created which disappointed the people who were used to the quick justice of the Wali era.

This argument is correct in that the natives were not satisfied with having Swat, a relatively more developed and civilised part of the country, relegated to a status equivalent to the underdeveloped Dir and Malakand areas through the notorious PATA regulation. However, there was never any serious debate on moving towards an Islamic system — sharia — let alone one that is as narrow and harsh as that of the Taliban.

The second, more mainstream, argument is that extremist elements — read Sufi Muhammad and Maulvi Fazlullah — had considerable leverage with the locals and thus managed to facilitate their insurgency. In reality, Sufi Muhammad was neither indigenous nor was he brought to prominence by local actors. Rather, as Major Amir (retd), then DG IB, said on record, Sufi Muhammad’s Tehreek-e Nifaz-e Shariat-e Muhammadi (TNSM) was organised thanks to subtle manipulation by the local administration of the erstwhile Malakand Division as well as by elements from the agencies. The objective was very limited: the then administration of Malakand wanted to regain the power that it enjoyed under PATA, an arrangement that had been dismantled through a Supreme Court order.

Similarly, Maulvi Fazlullah initiated his activities from an extremely small establishment. He was banished from his neighbourhood mosque due to his extremist views on jihad; locals also pleaded with the police to stop his radio transmissions.

However, the local government, in a meeting with the jirga, of which this author was a part, flatly expressed its inability to do so given that communications was a federal subject! Then, despite repeated requests from the locals and editorials in the country’s liberal newspapers, the establishment continued to ignore Fazlullah as he went on a rampage across the valley with his pro-jihad message.

The third and final argument is that the militancy in Swat is a reaction to the American-led occupation of Afghanistan. Again, facts do not back this position. There has hardly ever been any Swati presence in jihadi organisations, be they oriented towards Afghanistan or India. Swat is not known as a place where ultra-right sentiment flourishes. In fact, among Pakhtuns, Swatis are known to be a more materially driven people.

Further, before the non-Pakhtun presence was witnessed within the militant enclave in Swat recently, the area was never seen as a sanctuary for Afghanistan-linked militants. In fact, even Fazlullah, apart from his modestly-sized band of militants, has been unable to recruit natives to join his cause. In short, while resentment against the ‘American agenda’ grows, it is no worse than in the rest of the country.

As none of the societal arguments hold for the Swat insurgency, Swatis are wondering whether the state argument, i.e. the state has not been sincere in its efforts, is more realistic.

Swatis ask why Sufi Muhammad was not kept in check by those who facilitated his rise; why was Fazlullah not tackled when he had been condemned by his society and was running a lone propaganda project; why did the intelligence agencies fail to predict Fazlullah’s behaviour and movement; why, even at a later stage, did the state not take notice of the public burning of CD shops and TVs (the same led to a major offensive by the state in Islamabad)?

Further, why has the security apparatus failed to cut the militants’ supply lines; how come random journalists can talk to Fazlullah but security forces are unable to track him down; and if the state’s helplessness is genuine, how was the administration able to successfully hold general elections in Swat?

The above is not to point fingers at the state. Rather, it is to highlight the questions facing the embattled people of Swat. They remain unsure about their state’s sincerity in fulfilling its social contract with the people. This is an extremely dangerous trend which, if not tackled, could further alienate the people from the state. It is high time that the state rethinks its security paradigm and become more open in its communications with the people. It should clear up the contradictory picture that is forming in the people’s minds.

Talimand Khan is currently based at the Sustainable Development Policy Institute in Islamabad and is a native of Swat. He can be reached at talimand@sdpi.org (Daily Times)

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Situation in Swat and FATA: What do ordinary Pakistanis think?

(in the context of Geo TV's special program on current situation of Swat (Swat ki soorat-e-haal) . Rahimullah Yousafzai, Afrasayab Khattak and Rustam Shah Mohmand offered their views in the program)


savage said:

Following questions frustrate or amuse me.

1. why our self-proclaimed “One of the world best armies”, who conquers Prime Minister house at will, PTV Islamabad Station (I can’t forget herioic picture’s of jawan, climbing PTV walls), Supreme Court and bloody civilians are so ineffective this time, I guess it is not their fault, this time enemy is carrying guns too, and these poor guy were only train to confront harmless, armless civilians. They have been wasting tax payers money for years, but till now they couldn’t even get any of their middle tier leadership let alone Mullah FM. If journalist can find them whenever they want, why our brightest couldn’t do anything?

2. Why their FM stations are still running, in this hi-tech age where even Mullas are using FM radio, our Govt can’t jam the frequency or pin point from where they are broadcasting.

3. I hear this question being raised again and again on talk shows by Govt representatives, “from where they are getting funds and arms?” that makes me laugh. These guys have all the govt resources, yet they think people should answer that question.

4. If other countries are involved as it has been stated by officials on many times, why they are not raising this issue on international forums, TV talk shows or press conferences are not diplomatic tools.

5. Religious parties and some people still supporting these khawarjies, and I simply can’t not understand their reasoning, “chewnkay umreeka iss khitay mein hai iss leya hamaray aisay haalat hai”. Why don’t these khawarjies go and fight there? if some thing bad is happening in your neighbor’ house would you start blowing your own people and your assets, specially children schools???? Islam teaches you reasoning not the stupidity.

9 February 2009 at 5:18 am

Parrhesia said:

well done savage.

We have one of the best army is just a propaganda. Our army is NOT one of the best armies. we have seen this in 1965, 1971, Kergil, and Siachen.

I seriously doubt that army wants to act against Extremism. Your points are simple. There is some thing BIG wrong with Pak Army. As history shows that our army has been engaged with EHMAQAANA strategic policies so we may not rule out that army is not willing to limit extremists.

In lieu of this, either the army aims to keep on engaging US in Pak-Afghan border or it wants to generate problems for the civilian government or does not want to give the perception that a civilian government can resolve ALL issues without military help.

If our army thinks that it can engage US and Allies and do with them what it did to Soviet Union then God bless us. We are at the blink of the disintegration of Pakistan.



Shah30 said:

I would like to say it is not Army, Its a gang with guns, missiles and nuclear bombs. They do not have any ideology and they work on the commands of just one General.

I believe there should be some legislation to bring these war mongers, thugs and goons under some rules and regulations.



hadi26 said:

Get real people, stop venting your anger at the army, what is it that we want to prove by lashing out our frustrations at the army. Its not easy operating in such a terrain, if army acts, civilians die….u can’t expect them to completely decimate these so called extremists.

Yes, surely there is a lack of POLITICAL will and Resolve.. Remember the Lal Masjid? Everyone wanted decisive action .. and once it was done, we all know the outcome… People blamed the army for it.

It is an extremely complicated issue, till we develop the courage, both as a nation and individually to root out the inherent hypocrisies in our beleifs there is very little hope of us acheiving the desired outcome.



Basharat said:

@ Hadi26

Yes we still remember the Lal Masjid, no one asked army to kill innocent kids and daughters of this nation by using Phosphorous bombs. Other than politicians, ARMY is mainly responsible for whole chaos created in this country. Pak Army doesn’t have very bright past that we should start telling praise stories, we do forget quickly but can’t forget what Gen. Ayub, Yahya and Zia had done to Pakistan. ARMY has to proof first that they are the servant of this country not the kings. Gen. Pervez destroyed the whole judiciary, shook hands with the same people once he blamed for corruption. The guy who should be trailed in court for violating the constitution of this country is a VIP guest of army in Army house Rawal Pindi. With such a bad track record how can we trust this army about their operation in SWAT?


hadi26 said:

Basharat saab..

This is exactly the kind of emotional and baseless propoganda I absolutely detest.

Killing “innocent kids and daughters of the nation” … who gets to decide if they were innocent? one day they are religious fanatics taking over the capital …. the next day when we see dead bodies they become martyrs who need to be glorified and army vilified?

Phosphorus bombs, I would not even comment on that, these are probably the stun gernades used in such commando operations, which you are making out to be some sort of an atomic weapon…. I am absolutely in no way justifying the lal mosque operation, All I am saying is that WE, because of our own hypocritical beleifs and actions, put our Army in a position where they are cowards if they don’t act… and murderers if they DO!.

If you just think about it for a second, you will see the hypocricy I am trying to highlight, your whole argument is flawed as on one hand u are cursing the ARMY for using too much FORCE and in the same breath condemning them for not using FORCE to over come the Taliban in Swat?


shandana said:

@hadi26

It does make sense whatever you wrote…

If you look at the newspapers right before the day operation-lal-masjid started, you’ll be amazed to see how every body was blaming army for not doing the operation. The atmosphere was like …….Islamabad is going under the control of those ‘terrorists’ girls. Right after the operation, all those ‘terrorists’ became heroes.

IMO girls were innocent but not the two brothers, they have played their plan very well, used the girls-card effectively but the result got flipped.



Parrhesia said:

@ shandana

Lets not put blame on the two brothers only. They started the evil but army peaked it. Lal masjid issue spanned over many months. Under the Army Rule 600000 active personnel and four intelligence agencies could not exactly understand the situation or estimated the potential threat just five kilometers away from President House and 15 kilometers from GHQ????????? Was it a failure or deliberate negligence??????

The most important thing is who brought these brothers from jail to Lal masjid????

I have sympathy with both, Innocents and Commandos. Both of them became victim of the bloody game of Mush (Army) and Jahil Mullas.


Da Chamkani Pukhtoon said:

@ Savage,

You cannnot fight against Talibaan or any local in swat for a very simple reason, that these guys have lived all their life in those mountains and they know every cave,tree, bush and houses around that area. If you have been to Swat, you would have realised that a guy sitting on top of a hill or in trees can very easily target a moving object even in night.
Its almost impossible to defeat these taaliban in swat or even in FATA. The best way to get them is to infiltrate them with your oen people and do a target killing. Its very easy to find people (local) who will do this for you for few thousand of $$$. I don’t see any reason for pakistani army to waste their bullets,energy and get their jawan killed. They should announce a ceasefire, accept their conditions and tell them that the govt will support their “Sharriah” law and provide them with Moderen Technology (Mainly Cell fone bugged and have a tracker fitted) give them some Prado and plant some remote control bombs.

Pak Army should do some work up about these people instead of attacking them blindly. None of British Imperalists, USSR or neither will American succeed to conquer Pakhtoon nation per sae! Majority of Pakhtoons are against these so called “Taaliban” and would gladly oblige to carry these assasinations as long as its done carefully and well planned.



savage said:

@Da Chamkani Pukhtoon,

My main point was that it’s been around 2 years, since army launched this offensive, tell me one top level khawarji which they captured or killed? None. Doesn’t that mean there is something wrong either with their motives or the way all this is being conducted.


Da Chamkani Pukhtoon said:

@savage,

brother, I don’t think there is any element of “Not wanting” to capture them by the army. Once a Jawaan is down by the opposition, Its always the rule of ALL FORCES to hunt down and KILL them instead of even trying to arrest the. I will stick to my original argument that you can not hunt them unless they want u to hunt them. The Northern side of Pakistan and most of Afghanistan is a death trap for any army of the world specially when you have to deal with one of the courageous but ” EMOTIONALLY BLIND” nation called “Pakhtoon”.

The only people who can deal with them are “Them”. An ordinory Pakhtoon can fight with Army for days with his 3.3 riffle but when he sees a “Malayssha force” he prefer to run away entirely cuz Malaysha force are Pakhtoons as well and equally “Pakhtoon” LOL


savage said:

@Da Chamkani Pukhtoon,

I know the terrain as I myself belong to Hazara but I guess I’m still not making my point clear, point is, where is the ground intelligence, no operation could be successful without good intelligence. My argument is not about winning or loosing, they did not achieve anything during this time, on the other note, if they are willing to hunt down they sure could do, we do know what they did to Bughti, he was living in same kind of terrain.

Parrhesia said:

@ Da Chamkani Pukhtoon

Why u forget that army guys, so called fighting in swat, are also from northern areas. Not all but majority. War is not about being native of the area. Talibans who are coming from the Afghan side do not know area that well so the advantage is not of much value.

Even if it is an advantage, why u dont consider advantages of the military like big budget, structured command and control, strong intelligence network, heavy artillery and precise weapons. Moreover its not PAKHTOONS who r fighting. They are a mix of many nationalities.

If army wants to defeat them, its a matter of days only.

I am sorry but I dont like your boasting of PAKHTOONS. If u see history u would easily know that PAKHTOONS always preferred bribe over fighting. For more information read 200 years old booklet of the British Col who formed the first regiment of the native Indians. He states that if u want to get Pakhtoons done something, bribe them and they will follow u.

I seriously condemn your views abt PAKHTOONS. If they are so fight-oriented why they ran in front of US and Allied forces in Afghanistan? Why didnt they stayed to fight? Why are they still looking for support of extremist elements of pak fauj to regain their territory.

It is right that PAKHTOONS fought against aggression but their ultimate need is some money and they start fighting for the Giver. They are fighting from Baitullah side bcz he is paying 10000 per month. In this case they dont think why and who they r fight against.

Utmankhel1 said:

Get your facts right dears,

The so-called Taliban are a mix of many nationalities. As was stated in an earlier programme, they have around 5000 punjabi taliban. They also have around 7000 foreign elements, of which many are chechen, uzbeks, tajiks, and arabs.

This is not a Pakhtoon phenomenon. This is GHQ rawalpindi phenomenon. This is Jihadi phenonmenon, none of them is ours.

Also, don’t put lame excuses to save asses of army, they are not going to eliminate them. They want’t to keep them for strategic depths and kashmiri waters.


Da Chamkani Pukhtoon said:

@Parrhesia

As regards to your initial comments about Pakistani army fighting in Swat have more people from northern region of Pakistan is your “Assumption” but not a fact! I know people who were actually being stationed and who took part in that operation and the fact of the matter is that though they do have local people but mainly they r not from “Pakhtoonistan”.

As regards to quoting comments about “Pakhtoon’s” by a British soldier is quite Pathetic. Pakhtoon’s have fought British Imperialists and made them run away and now you want me to actually, respect the “Pearls of wisdom” by a British Col. Historically, It was only “Pakhtoon’s” who gave them a tough fight in this part of the world and Sad but true that all attacks on Afghanistan were being helped by then inhabitants of Punjab.

Your Quote “I seriously condemn your views abt PAKHTOONS. If they are so fight-oriented why they ran in front of US and Allied forces in Afghanistan? Why didn’t they stayed (STAY!) to fight? Why are they still looking for support of extremist elements of pak fauj to regain their territory”

You condemn my views about Pakhtoon’s cuz you think that they are not fight oriented? Or you can’t hear the truth?

Your accusation about Pakhtoon’s fleeing Afghanistan is baseless and absurd. Its only Pakhtoon’s who are fighting Pakistan’s War in Afghanistan, First Gen Zia give them training and arms and ammunition and Pakistani nation were behind that “JIHAD” but when the time came after 9/11, one threat from US was enough for Mr. Mussharaf to disown them and pull the plug on all support. But despite that they are still there and are fighting. As regards to running away or hiding from Americans! You live in a KO KO land! If you knew the tactics of war in a mountain range then you wouldn’t comment like this. But just to explain that to you… If you don’t have an air aid, like the Afghans in a war against US, then your best bet of fight and survive is to commence on, what we call, hit and run! You target a convoy, hit and then leave that area for their air force to come and raid the stones! Infact instead of blaming Afghans (Pakhtoon’s) one should be ashamed of ducking in your comfortable houses in fear of American attack. What is happening is Pakhtoonistan and the death silence from the biggest province does say a lot of things between the lines!

Your Comment “If army wants to defeat them, it’s a matter of days only” can make every one laugh! Why is then, that there are news everyday of army Jawaan surrender in that region? Guess, Army wants to take its time to play, cat and mouse though I am not sure who is the cat in this instance!

Also, please avoid baseless accusation about “Pakhtoon’s”. Do you have a PROOF that Pakhtoon’s are working for Baithullah for 10000? I can say same thing about you that you work for ISI and get 100000 or call you an Indian agent (which will be an instant hit in our country)

If you have to condemn a group of people or a party then do it with all fairness! Just by trying to twist history won’t achieve you anything. The History of Pakhtoon’s is older then the history of Pakistan which will upset you again!



Da Chamkani Pukhtoon said:

When speaking of the Taliban, and regarding them as brothers by Pakhtoons……..while this may be true relavant to Afghan Taliban movement……… it is certainly NOT the case with Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan. This organization, headed by former AQl-Qaida combat cell commander Baitullah Mehsud is a “creation” of Al-Qaida strategists, and designed to place a Pakistani face on a foreign inspired ideology!
The Pakhtoon of FATA know this!!!!!!!!!!
Hence the resentment and efforts of these tribes directed AGAINST Al-Qaida and it’s domestic TTP stooges! If the resistence against AQ and TTP, is as suggested by some people in media is fraud, then why…….. pray tell ….. are they(terrorists) so interested in killing tribal leaders and elders???????
They have murdered over 140 of them since the first Jirga organized by Musharraf!!!!!!!!

The Pakistani, Afghan and NATO representatives have been busy bribing tribal leaders to hold meaningless “jirgas” with a view to turning the Pashtuns against the Taliban . . . without any success. The Saudis held meetings with Taliban and Al-Qaeda representatives, also, without success.
Inept and incompetent application of military power has failed to subdue a militia movement - Al-Qaeda, has undermined a new administration in Islamabad, failed to secure another in Kabul, alienated tribes on both sides of the Durand Line and is fast developing into a situation that could spell the collapse of a nuclear-tipped nation. Washington will soon see the exit of a “goof-ball” President, but, it needs to ensure that his policies go with him !

FATA belongs to the Pakhtoons and it’s more than apparant that Pakhtoons want these guys out of FATA, but like a “tick on a dog”.Al-Qaida has “dug in” after duping the good people of FATA into believing that they were there to help them (Pakhtoons) when in reality, and as tribal leaders are discovering, they(Al-Qaida and it’s domesic surrogates) are there ONLY TO HELP THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read more...

7,700 sacked govt employees to be reinstated - What do ordinary Pakistanis think?

Politics, Humanity and Yellow Journalism - By Abbas Ather




A promise fulfilled


.....

Also read:

True story of a reinstated employee by Tahir Sarwar Mir


Well done Pakistan Peoples Party, the party of the poor.

7,700 sacked govt employees to be reinstated

Thursday, January 22, 2009
To receive three-year arrears in instalments; youth policy okayed

By Asim Yasin

ISLAMABAD: The federal cabinet on Wednesday approved the modalities for the reinstatement of over 7,700 public sector employees, sacked during 1996-98, within two to three months.

“These employees will be given three-year arrears along with promotion to higher scale and approximately Rs 7.5 billion amount would be paid to them in the coming three years,” said Minister for Information and Broadcasting Sherry Rehman while briefing newsmen about the decisions of the federal cabinet meeting held here with Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani in the chair.

The minister said with the reinstatement of the sacked employees, the PPP was fulfilling the promises made with the people. She said according to the reinstatement plan, the sacked employees shall be placed on a scale higher than the revised scale of the post, in case the structure of a post/cadre was changed. She said the plan envisaged that on reinstatement, each employee shall be paid compensation equivalent to three-year emoluments of the pay scale in which he would be placed, in three yearly instalments.

She said the first instalment shall be paid on reinstatement and the second and the third on January 1, 2010 and January 1, 2011, respectively. “The workers given forced golden handshake shall also be reinstated provided they agree to reimburse all monetary benefits they received.”

Sherry Rehman said the cabinet had approved, in principle, the National Youth Policy and had constituted a steering committee comprising Ministers for Labour & Manpower Khursheed Shah, Population Welfare Dr Firdous Ashiq Awan, Hazar Khan Bijarani (Education), Manzoor Ahmed Wattoo (Industries), Pir Aftab Shah Jilani (Sports), Shahbaz Bhatti (Minorities Affairs) and Special Assistant to the PM on Social Sector Shahnaz Wazir Ali.

The steering committee has been tasked to prepare an action plan for implementation within one month. The National Youth Policy, she said, aimed at providing opportunities to the youth for income generation, employment and sports activities.

The information minister said the cabinet committee, comprising ministers for education, law and parliamentary affairs and special assistant to the prime minister on social sector, had been formed to examine in detail the issue of establishment of the Sir Syed Institute of Engineering and Technology, Islamabad.

She said since the president of Pakistan was the patron-in-chief of the Sir Syed Memorial Society, the prime minister had directed that the president’s views/consent may also be sought in this regard before submitting the plan to the cabinet for approval.

She said another cabinet committee, comprising ministers for industries & production, law, education, parliamentary affairs and the special assistant to the PM on social sector, had been formed to examine the proposal of the Industries Ministry for the establishment of a university of engineering and technology focusing on fertiliser research. “The committee will present its report to the cabinet for approval,” she added.

She said the prime minister had rejected the suggestion of naming the university after him. The information minister said the cabinet ratified the agreement between Pakistan and Brunei for the avoidance of double taxation and prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes and income.

Sherry said the minister for food & agriculture informed the cabinet that due to timely import of fertiliser, there was no shortage of the commodity in the country. She said the cabinet was also informed that the Ministry of Industries was transporting 8-10,000 tons of fertiliser from Gwadar to other parts of the country every day.

Some Comments by Ordinary Pakistanis:

ashahid01 Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:49 pm


Here comes one of the person who got his brother re-instated in 7000 employees by great saviour government in present time.

Long live Bhuttooo, Roti Kapra Makan to 7000 people. ‘Kal bhi Bhutto Zinda tha, Aaj bhi Bhutto Zinda hai’, I am going to get all my field workers to vote for the party of poor. Democracy at its best in Pakistan.


kafka8 Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:57 am

faujistan can gobble up 700 BILLION RS..its ok…a democratic govt. (corrupt/inept) allocates 7 billion (?) to citizens (albeit those who are pipliyas and were persecuted according to them by pml-n) is a big issue?? maybe.

lets just keep things in context.

netengr Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 3:52 am

At least they are supporting the poors and their families .this time i appreciate PPP Government to help theses victims .

despite of the bad economy PPP took this step .http://ejang.jang.com.pk/1-22-2009/pic.asp?picname=1011.gif

this is the beast way to welfare people instead to open sasta tandoor in couple of area which cannot serve 1 % of the population ,just to get the popularity

Keep Faujistan at bay!!!


netengr Says:
7,700 workers are mostly middle and poor class .atleast 50 thousand people will be benefiting .

I am not the PPP supporter but I they are doing some thing good i will appreciate them

Ma Says:
if its wrong to give “rozgar” to the people and to reinstate those who has been kicked out for political reason then PPP is responsible for that.

it has done that before and it will do it again.

i know someone personally who was given employment by PPP government i 1994 and was sacked by next Nawaz Government saying that he belongs to PPP. i am happy that he is now reinstated.
its is win and long standing commitment of PPP to bring those people who has been sacked illegally by the Nawaz Government.

7700 peoples Job means 7700 family able to earn their living.
i think its shameful the way PML n is playing politics on it, they are doing the same which General Musharraf did by arresting PPP leaders for providing the Jobs.

7.5billion will be used in all over the process, which include their 10 years of pay as well.

no they are being reinstated a grade higher to their previous one.
Its upto them that they accpet it or not but as matter of principle beacuse the government thinks that they were ‘illegally’ removed and targetted ‘politically’ so thats why they have a right to be given chance to come back to their jobs.

it was one of their menifesto slogen in elections and they got votes on it and they MUST do it.

“Ilm Roshni, Sab Ko Kaam
Roti Kapra Aur Makaan
Maang Raha Hai Har Insaan”

Ma Says:

I will recommend you all to read this nice article written Syed Abbas ather (in daily Express)

according to that
in 1988 PPP has reinstated 12000 poor people who were sacked by Zia regime in 80s.

PPP is a party who believes in giving ‘Rozgar’ to the people rather than snatching @Rozgar’ from them. that why
PPP has confirmed 12000-13000 Jobs in 1988 by Junijoo governments
PPP has confirmed 5000 ad hoc People and 1,65,200 contract jobs to permanent.
You cannt say that those who has appointed by previous Governement are Jiyalas.

PPP menifesto statements is

Ilm Roshni, Sab Ko Kaam
Roti Kapra Aur Makaan
Maang Raha Hai Har Insaan

centrino Says:

I think its very easy to talk when we are sitting in the drawing rooms close to heater with a cup of tea on the internet TO CRITICISE any positive development.

Just go and ask the people who have nothing to eat. Their stoves are out and their families are not sure if they will have food for the other day or not.

It anyone of you is kicked out of the job and all your family is dependent on you only then you can realise what to do.

Lets appreciate whether someone is a worker of a party or not. At least our poor people are getting something out of it. As for the Party worker,,,, dont you think every poor person in this country is worker of one party or the other. These are poor masses who make give shape to a party then why not these should be given benefits.

Lets say PPP has reinstated its own party workers which for me means that 7700 poor families of this country have at least fot a secure future.

dara Says:

@ All those judiciary supporters.
Judicial crises was designed by non democratic forces so that people and political leaders should waist their time in non issue.
Those morons wanted two things out of judiciary crises.
1.to support distrust on real political forces of this country.
2. If they have to bow down to pressure from USA and share power with politicians then there should be a crises to depend upon.
PPP did exactly what they promised in their manifesto to re instate Govt employees who were politically victimized.

Ch Iftikhar should resign and come in to the politics if he things he could bring a change. Why he is begging for a seat?

As far his re in statement is concerned he was reinstated with a judicial process but couldn’t stop a dictator doing two things.

1. that dictator reelected trough a very controversial election and judiciary under Mr. Iftikhar Ch. accommodated that.( remember Qazi Hussain and Imran Khan’s petition , Imran Khan and Qazi were instrumental in re electing Mushraf in that way.

2. Nov 2007’s emergency that had full support of today’s Military leadership including Gen Kiani. PPP came in to seen and broke that game of establishment where two establishment groups were doing a Noora Kushtee to make us fool.

PPP and BB were intelligent enough to understand the game establishment was playing to avoid elections ( as we saw establishment’s Chamchas boycott of election), Nawaz Shrief was once fooled by those elements as he decided to boycott too but came out of their trap.
Our country is so close to complete destruction ( as in past every time at the end of any military rule) and we are only one problem , how to reinstate that corrupt judge who supported Musharaf’s ill legal acts of Oct 1999.

areeza Says:

how NS came to Pakistan? thru NRO or li**ng mush a**.? please someone answer.

same work if punjab govt does, everyone from PML-N will be appreciating..lol

MalangBaba Says:

I completly support reinstatement of these employees. Nawaz Sharif terminated these people only to sell their vacant positions to his partymen. Cases were made against PPP leaders including BB Shaheed and Yousaf Raza Gilani. They could not prove any thing wrong even in their own appointed judges.

Most Ziaists on this forum r extremly biased and suffering myopia.

MalangBaba Says:

Ghost Of TK wrote:

”
If we’re concerned with the principle of “People who lost their jobs illegally under previous governments ought to get their jobs back” then let us consider these two historical and legal facts:

1. Nawaz Sharif Prime Minister of Pakistan was illegally deposed on 12th of October 1999 by a Military Jurnail who committed treason and violated article 6 of the constitution. Nawaz Sharif should get his job back.

2. Iftikhar Muhammad Choudhry, the chief justice of Pakistan, was illegally deposed AGAIN by the same fvcking jurnail, who AGAIN violated the constitution, committed treason and illegally deposed the Judiciary and his own government. Justice Iftikhar Choudhry and all the judges illegally made un-functional ought to get their jobs back.”
”

U r right in both cases.

Case 1: But the problem is that NS came in power because he managed to get BB removed from power illegaly and got elected through rigged elections. eghari put an anti-PPP caretaker government that put PPP leadership in jails, started vicious campaign against PPP and lodged thousands of cases against its workers and put hundreds in jail. So he got a job with support of establishment through illegal means. If U don’t believe me just get the old newspapers from file and read the statements of Imran Khan and Qazi who were holding long marches against Sharif.

2. Iftikhar Ch. was appointed judge and then CJ by the same Mush who illegaly dislodged NS. His appointment as a judge and as a CJ were both illegal as far as the constitution of 1999 stands. So how can removing an illegaly apponted judges can illegal? For your information NS considered Iftikhar and his fellow judges illegal till March 9, 2007 and was boycotting these judges on the plea of their illegal status and also being a PCO judge.

being selective in demand of justice is a big hypocricy that most right wingers Ziaists suffer. They cannot see beyond their own narrow vision and can justify any thing that suits their vested interest.

Fahim23 Says:

Zia, NS, and Musharaf kicked off people from jobs that were given to people in PPP government? That’s ok they can do that, it was not politically motivated and certainly not a political victimization. They didn’t even needed to form a commission which examined the merits of appointments. Just because they were hired in PPP govt they are corrupt.

Military can make cantonments in every city of Pakistan and acquire thousands of acres of land all over the country, thats absolutely fine and no need to fuss about that. But if PPP compensates the sacked employees of govt departments that is not acceptable.

Munir Says:

Government reinstated 7,700 employees of grades 1-6 and sky is falling.

MalangBaba Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 1:33 am


@ashahid01

“Of course, you are going to support reinstatement of these miracle workers. I suspect you probably got your brother or cousin to re-occupy a lucrative post in some government department and hence the joy. ”

Well U r wrong. My point is very simple:

1. Bothe NS and Mush miserably failed to provein any self-appointed court that these ppl were illegaly employed.
2. Most of these ppl were low grade employees belonging to poor families. They suffered for no reason other than political vandatta
3. They were removed from jobs without any legal proceedings againts them. The purpose was to victimize PPP leader ship and make cases against PPP leaders including BB and YRG

Every government has a right to provide jobs. I agree that there should be merit. But political appointments are part of Pakistani culture. Why single out only PPP? Just because it provide jobs and housing to poor?

I worked on a senior position in Islamabad from 1980-1992 and have witnessed a lot of corruption by generals and their faviourite politicians like NS and Jamaat. Even the jouirnalist Ansar Abbasi got his job in The News using influence of Gen. Zia through Khaqan Abbasi. I know this personaly because a cousin of his was appointed in my ministry the same way who used to be my friend. This ansar Abbasi guy used to come to my office often and we used to have long discussions. I know for sure that he is a big Safarshi himself but now he is making -ve stories just to further his Ziaist agenda.

BTW: none of my family members or even distant relatives r part of these 7000 victims of Ziaism. I do admit that some of my relatives who r very rich and corrupt from Lahore managed to get their three sons employed in police (inspector) and revenue department (tehsil dar) through Shehbaz Sharif by pying one million rupeed each that too through safarash of Shuja-ur-rehman family.

The difference between PPP and NS is that PPP provide employments to poor and unemployed but NS provide lucirative obs to rich and influencial.

This is the reason PPP won all elections in Pakistan’s history held under an impartial setup.
Read more...

Oppression of women and other ordinary citizens....The Taliban as well as security forces are responsible for destroying peace in Swat. - Hamid Mir

Swat - valley of horror and terror

Tuesday, January 13, 2009 by Hamid Mir The home of Hameedullah Khan in Shakardra village of Swat was destroyed by dynamite last week. He knows who the people who did this to him but he can turn to no one for justice. He has been a journalist from more than a decade. I know him because it was me who encouraged him to become a reporter 13 years ago when I was editor of an Urdu newspaper. These days he works for an Arab TV channel. The Taliban were not happy him and he claims that some local Taliban destroyed his home because of his reporting. This now homeless journalist has since shifted his family to Mardan. I also know another journalist of Swat by the name of Musa Khankhel from many years. In the last few months alone, he has survived two assassination attempts. He told me that some elements within the security forces wanted to eliminate him physically due to his reporting. The majority of people in Swat are not happy at all with either the Taliban or the security forces - and sadly, the ultimate beneficiaries of this situation are criminals. Swat has become a paradise of dacoits, car lifters and professional killers. It’s a valley without any law. I have seen dead bodies of innocent civilians killed by security forces in Kuza Bandai town of Swat with my own eyes. I have also seen some brave shopkeepers of Matta challenging the orders of Taliban in their face without any state protection. When I discussed this situation with the elected member of the National Assembly from Matta Syed Allaudin he gave me a heart-breaking answer. The PPP MNA said: “I have not visited my area even once since I won the election on Feb 18 last year. The Taliban as well as security forces are responsible for destroying peace in Swat. If I cannot enter in my area how can I help my voters there?” Syed Allaudin, Hameedullah Khan and Musa Khankhel can tell their stories to the world with their own names but many cannot speak their heart because there is nobody to listen them or to provide them any justice. Let me tell you the one tragic story of a religious scholar. I cannot expose the full identity of this religious scholar due to the dangers that he faces but I will narrate his story. It’s not the tragic story of just one man; it’s the tale of an entire nation’s powerlessness. Recently I met him in Peshawar. Mufti sahib broke into tears as he was telling me his story, but I couldn’t even rise from my chair and offer him some solace. His head bowed, Mufti sahib kept crying, unable to stop. Finally he looked up, grief darkening his face, and said: “I don’t know to whom I should go. Who is there to hear my cry and give me justice, I don’t need justice for myself but for hundreds of thousands of my daughters? They are crying out, but no one is listening.” Mufti Sahib comes from Mingora where for the past 18 years he had worked at a madressah as a teacher. Recently a woman had come to him, hoping he would find some solution to the problem she faced. She belonged to the village of Kuza Bandai, situated on the banks of the Swat river - which in years gone by was famous for its trout. Her husband had died some years back in a road accident. Since the woman already had an F.A. certificate, she found work in a private school in Mingora which was not all that far, and thus could support herself and her three children while continuing to live in Kuzah Bandai. Eventually she also got a degree in bachelor’s of education. Due to the uncertain law and order situation in the Swat valley during the last sixteen months or so most of the educational institutions were closed. But the schools in Mingora stayed open and the woman continued working. A few days back, when she returned home in the evening from her school in Mingora, one of her neighbours came to see her. The neighbour told her that now Sharia had been imposed and women were prohibited from going out of homes without any reason, and so from the next morning she would not be able to go to her work. The woman said to her neighbour, with some degree of fear and exasperation: “Look, you know very well why I work. Every morning I take my children with me to Mingora, leave them at their school, and then go to my job at the school where I teach. And when my job finishes I go back and pick up my children and return home. They will starve to death if I stop working because as you know my husband is no longer alive.” The neighbour told her: “We will not let your children die of hunger but you must not go out anymore.” The self-respecting lady did not wish to live like a beggar, and so the same night she took her children and returned to Mingora, to her sister’s house, and continued working. However, the elements who don’t want women to go out of their homes went to the principal of the school where the woman worked and told the principal that either he closed down the school or fired the woman! Scared and worried to death, the woman somehow learned that there were in that group of militants some young men who had studied from Mufti sahib in his madressah. She hoped that he might be able to help her. She told her story to Mufti sahib and next day Mufti sahib contacted one of his former students hoping there would be some way out. This former student was from Khwazakhela - which is close to the Karakoram Highway and Battagram district — and had joined the local militants a year ago, after his younger brother was killed in an operation carried out by the security forces. The former student talked to his fellow militants but they refused to budge. It seems that they think they will lose their lose their authority in the area they let the woman work outside her home. Mufti sahib then went to talk to the militants in person. During the conversation he remarked that it was not jihad when a Muslim fought another Muslim. The commander of the militants got angry and said: “We commemorate the martyrs of Karbala on the 10th of Muharram. Was not the jihad of those martyrs against a government that called itself Islamic?” Mufti sahib then explained to him the full context of the events of Karbala and told them that their resistance is not Islamic. He tried to explain to them that women had played a key role in the spread or Islam. He told them: “The light of Islam was spread not only by men, some women also contributed courageously by coming out of their homes. History received the great story of the sacrifices of the Karbala martyrs through Hazrat Zainab (RA), daughter of Hazrat Ali (RA). As a child, she was a great favourite of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). She had become even during the life of her father, Hazrat Ali (RA), a learned speaker, and used to expound on the Holy Quran before women. At Karbala, she saw all the male members of her family killed before her eyes. And when she was taken as a prisoner before ‘Ubaidallah bin Ziyad, the ruler of Kufah, she boldly confronted him with words of truth. Then, after an arduous journey, she was brought before Yazid in Damascus. There too she stood boldly and refused to acknowledge him as the caliph. The thundering voice of Hazrat Ali’s daughter frightened Yazid so much that he had her taken back to Madina together with the remaining members of the revered family. Had there not been Zainab the world would not have any awareness of the heights of glory reached by the martyrs of Karbala.” Mufti sahib further said to the commander: “The history of Islam is filled with stories of other bold and courageous women besides Zainab. Had not these women stepped out of their homes, Islam might not have spread so swiftly.” He also recounted the story of Hazrat Safiya, who was the Prophet’s (PBUH) aunt and a sister of Hazrat Hamza (RA). During the battle with the Jewish tribe, Banu Quraiza, she attacked a spy of the enemy, cut off his head and threw it toward the enemy’s ranks. Then there was Hazrat Umm-e Ammarah, who wielded her sword alongside the Prophet (PBUH) in the Battle of Uhad. And when a stone struck the Prophet (PBUH) and shattered two of his teeth, it was Umm-e Ammarah who then protected the Prophet from an enemy’s attack.” As Mufti sahib was narrating these incidents to the commander, the latter started accusing him of being an ‘agent’ of the security forces, and had him arrested. Eventually, at the behest of his former students, Mufti sahib regained freedom, but the very next day he was relieved of his duties at the madressah. Not only that, he was also ordered to leave Swat altogether within two days. His efforts to obtain justice on behalf of an oppressed woman ended in making him homeless. But his tears before me were not on account of his own loss. The reason was that few days earlier the lady who had struggled so hard to take care of her three fatherless children was first declared a prostitute by the militants and then killed. According to Mufti Sahib, Swat was totally peaceful until two years ago. Then the government of Pervez Musharraf destroyed its peace. It spilled the blood of innocent people, and now the same innocent people had become greatest oppressors. They are killing each other in the name of Islam. What a great irony that the dictator who loudly proclaimed his “enlightened moderation” cast Swat into the clutches of religious extremism. And now he is going around the world lecturing on peace. Mufti Sahib told me: “In Swat, the state and non-state elements are both the oppressors. They are both tyrannical. Our ulema will have to show the same boldness and courage that Hazrat Imam Hussain (RA) showed, for Swat has also become another Karbala. The ulema will have to stand up on behalf of those countless women who are being made prisoners in their homes in the name of Islam, and on whom all doors of education are being closed.” If the ulema do not raise a united voice now on behalf of their sisters and daughters there will be no one left to listen to their stories of Hazrat Safiya, Hazrat Umm-e-Ammarah and Hazrat Zainab. The writer works for Geo TV and hosts Capital Talk. Email: hamid.mir@geo.tv ..... Protest by the Civil Society in Islamabad. Call for an effective military operation against the Taliban. BBC Urdu Report http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2009/01/090112_swat_civil_zs.shtml ..... Some Comments: (a post-mortem of Samia Raheel Qazi) Re Live with Talat 12 Jan 2009 engsaaiqbal Says: I appriciate... words from rahila Qazi that these militants are the ISI agents absalutly right,as i am the resident of swat the atomic country armay hand over the pathom istitute of management in gulibagh swat yesterday after along negosiation between taliban leader (mula mushtaq) and army officers.Now the people come to know that this is the drama.The government take money from america to show something to them distributing among the high officers of army.If you notice the army ratio of killing is rare in every incident then police and Frontier Constabulary and the most suffering are the inocent people of swat.If the army can not control 2000 militants so how they will defeate the indian army.We will request to stop killing of pakistani people for the sake of dollers. nawaz.bhatti Says: When it comes to human rights, I will say yes human life is a gift of GOD. Humans are humans irrespective of religion. Children, are innocent everyhere. Similarly slaughtering some one without any trial is un-islamic. Who says to slaughter a dancer ? I this islam? Who says to slaughter a political opponent? Is this Islam? Last but not least: Yeps genocide of Palestenian is never accepted. Similiraly the killings of innocent Isreali children is also haram? Who knows wether these Israeli kids may die muslims or Jews? The most important is that why muslims all over the world are highlighting the ARAB issue, specially some pakistani politicians? Although they are well aware that the death toll of innocent people in SWAT, and FATA is 100 times more than Palestine. Why the Pashtun Genocide is not highlighted? Because the ARABS are rich so ARABS get more attension….and PASHTUNS are poor , so they are used as a fuel to burn super powers. They are exploited more by muslims than by non-muslims. The muslims are doing the business of Pahtun blood from 1979 untill now. This is the fact , no one is sincere about religion. That is all about money and material gain. Kill Pashtuns, get dollar and Riyaal, Darham…. I never seen any ARAB or other muslim to protest for human rights voilation of pahstuns…have you seen one? You will never see any muslim to highlight this genocide on international forums….I am dissapointed at least….. Do you think ARABs are the best muslims and best humans than the rest of the muslims? May Allah save all of you diamondcut Says: Pakistan army is working with RAW against tribal people… True Face of Jamat-e-Islami like all other relgious parties.I won’t be surprised if all the killings of ANP leaders at Swat,Mardan and peshawar have some MMA connection to regain these constituencies!!! Isn’t this ironic that all political parties leaders of all parties mainly ANP are getting assasinated except MMA. I think the time has to come to draw a line whether they are with pakistan side or with those criminal gangs(talibans). dara Says: Samia Raheel Qazi should be sitting in her house making and taking care of babies as this is the massage of Talibans, who have introduced their own Islam. No education for girls, no barber shops, no job for women , you will be killed if you have difference of opinion on any thing. Why Qazi Hussain and other Mullahs have sent their daughters to assembly and ask women to vote in Lahore and Karachi where as they stop women to do so in NWFP and other psrts? If it was a jihad then why not Qazi and other mullah go and fight or at least send their sons, but their children are living like other elites in Pakistan? F/K with you Jihad. kurkosmici Says: I must say here, that we Pakistani are not a nation but a conspiracy. pakistan was created not for the Muslims but for conspiracy. This is very obvious that If we have problem in our own house e.g if in my house i have problem with my father or mother or with any family members, THAN how come i will try to solve the problems for my neighbours. Why we Pakistani not shouting for our own land. Because of USA attack in Pakistan, all the politicians, businessman, media,elite class and bareucrates are making money. We must solve our problems first and than others. nawaz.bhatti Says: read the story of a noble school teacher [by Hamid Mir] , who was declared a prostitutute and then slaughtered by Taliban. She was doing job to serve her 3 kids, whose father was died in an accident in SWAT. IS ISRAEL CRUAL OR TALIBAN? When will we wake up? http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1. asp?id=156813 nawaz.bhatti Says: Rahila QAZI, i will ask one question. How can RAW and Pakistan army work together to kill the pakistan army? Yes it is true that Pakistan army is doing this dramma to kill people in swat and fata. If RAW can hit a settled area like swat why not RAW can target area like moreedkay, or Faridkot? nawaz.bhatti Says: we demand resignation from the cowarb man , Bilour. He does’t deserve to lead the pashtuns. shame shame Utmankhel1 Says: Talat, Thanks for being there. Thanks Ghazala. Rest are bastards. And look at the bitch …. she is twisting the facts …. your f..g ummah … We demand immediate resignation of Bilour from his position in ANP. He does not deserve to be representing Pukhtuns. Utmankhel1 Says: I think ANP should come out clear and tell the truth that ARMY wants it to sign the deal of Waziristan in exchange for peace in Swat. Ghost Of TK says: Nothing gives me more plaisir than to watch Hijabi Beardo’s squeal like little munafiq pigs against their eternal benefactor Uncle Sam. Oh that sinking feeling of realization the you’ve been USED by the mossad! buahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! And what was that stupid sh!t at the end about Pakistan Army, The FAGGOTaliBAN and the RAW working together in the FATA?? This woman needs to get some fvcking oxygen to her brain. Another example of the anti-pakistan nature of Jamatias and an indication of WHERE EXACTLY their loyalties lie. Now they’re saying anything they can due to “bad-hawaasi” and their pimp Unky Sam leaving them in the lurch! Don’t worry mulwatta’s! Rest assured, you’re still working for the Zionists! YOU FOOLS! xtra Says: These generals, liberal facists with munafiq so called taliban are nothing but a BREEDED GENERATION from UNCLE SAM PIG….. These mo..er f…ker are enjoying their life on the blood of innocent childerns, women and men…. Last eight years, nation suffered military dictator liberal fascist and now suffering from civilian dictator liberal fascist zardariiiiii….. kafka8 Says: pakistani electronic media did a wonderful job with the free judiciary movement. however…it is increasingly obvious that they ..focus only on local issues..and harldy carry an international perspective or angle to what is unfolding in the world and how that has relevance to pakistan. ..the lack of an international/historical perspective seriously limits the depth of analysis. Kashif Says: I agree with nawaz.bhatti that world has shown double standards for Arab blood and blood spilled in rest of the Asia and Africa. In Africa especially civil wars are much more brutal and people live and die in much more misery but it goes un-noticed because of their economic conditions. Pushtoons, Bengalis, Punjabis, Kashmiris, Tamils etc are victims of many brutal crack down in past 4 decades or so but they didn’t get same attention in UN as Palestinians did. Palentinians them selves are not rich but they are supported by rich Arabs and opposed by rich jews and that helps them get hot seat in UN and every US administration. The other thing that rightly baffeled Talat was that Rahela Qazi didn’t say a word against brutal extremists. I can understand she is extremist herself so politically its not easy for her to condem them. But its not her majority of moderates in Pakistan who are not even threatend by extremists don’t say much about them. We are going through very serious crisis unlike any we may have faced. Our traditional approach of bashing leaders to come out of crisis won’t work because it has never worked. I remember we hated every ruler, Zia, BB, NS, Mushraaf and now Zardari. It didn’t help our issues are getting from bad to worse. Our approach towards issues is falwed, instead of focusing on issues, we focus on individuals and when the individual is failed we try the next one thats what we are doing for past 60 years with out much success. Utmankhel1 Says: An innocent killed is innocent killed,and the killer has to be condemned. Qazi’s hands are soaked with innocents blood, so how can we expect his daughter to condemn her father. Talat did his job, people of pukhtunkhwa now should be asking Bilour as to what was he afraid of while speaking there. Utmankhel1 Says: Punjabis are killing Balochis. .. Army and it’s boot licking mullahs are killing pashtuns. While the ... awlaads of pak army’s dogs (imran, qazi) are supporting the killers. You will see one day we will stuck the fu..g ideas of imran and qazi up their a$$es. We do not wan’t this umma $hit anymore and won’t let our children be brainwashed by the ...children (Qazi and Imran) of ISI to brainwash our children.. .....it is a fact that till this day those who have dared to speak belong to ANP. JI on the other hand is the criminal, and PTI have sympathies with them. And i don’t blame army, blame is not appropriate word. Read this, the voices are out now …. http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2009/01/090112_swat_civil_zs.shtml ... we_are_nuts says: "….unnnnhhh Amerika, Israel, India” -Raheela, what did you have for breakfast? “Talat, Amerika, Israel, India…” -But Raheela what about Jordon, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia (where your party is funded from) who have given a blank check to Israel to slaughter the Palestinians? What about Mehmood Abbass of Fateh who has actually condemned Hammas for the recent killing of Paelstinians? “Talat unnnhhh, Amerika, Israel, India….” -But Raheela, what about this recent piece from Hamid Mir (pioneer member of the Morality in the Mooch Birgade) about the zulum-u-sitam of Taliban on women and a widow trying to feed her kids? http://thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=156813 “Talat, unnnnhhhh Amerika, Israel, and India..” ... I wrote this to somebody who sent me an e-mail about Israeli terrorism and killing on innocent Palestinians in Gaza: What happens in Gaza is due to the mother f***ers in American colony of Jordan (ruler apparently from Quraish, whose forefathers changed sects to stay in power; read Sharif of Mecca) the viagra taking blood suckers of the House of Sauds (Khadmain Haramian Tatoo-e-Amerikian Shah co*k sucker) and the ignorant bastards (sons of who**s; i dont have anything against who**s, just sons like Hosni Mubarak who like to f**k young boys). They are responsible for the plight of the Palestinians. Also add that Palestinian bit*h enjoying the Hashmite c**ks in Jordan named Queen Rania. The Americans and Israeliss are NOT responsible at ALL. I dont see any protest in Jericho. I am with the people of Jericho, on the Island of West Bank, Middle East, planet Earth. Please spare the poor Pakistani/Indian muslims on the plight of the Palestinians. I will care for the f**kers when the Palestinian wh**e Rania comes and feeds the homeless people of Bajaur Agency. I know she is not comming because she has been talking to another gr8 former Pakistani enjoying Hashmite co*ks named Princess Sarvath Ikramullah wife of former crown prince of Jordan and d/o Muhammad Ikramullah first foreign secretary of Pakistan. Pakistanis have a deep tradition of harming the Palestinians ala Black September Operation headed by the fifth khalifa of muslims his highness Khalifae Pakistan Zia-ul-haq himself. Along with Princess Sarvath’s ‘devar’ he killed many Palestinians in the Black September Operation. I recommend that although Pakistani men shouldnt go out and repeat the 1970 operation against the Palestinians now, they should sit home and jerk off to Queen wh**e Rania’s pictures and lament as to how a 4ft man can marry somebody like that. To do more like protest, try to arrange some jihad bull crap, use words like Islam/unity/massacre in explaining the current situation is not only stupid but futile. ... Upon his reply and insistance on praying, i couldn’t resist but had to reply: “From: Mahmood Hussain, Syed Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:16:52 +0500 Dude what r u talking about??? You are not making any sense man!! The focus is on the daily deadly operations carried out against civilians by Israeli Terrorists…we are not dealing with high level diplomacy and politics at the moment…these are war times there right now…peace in the middle east – pray!” ____________________________________________ Peace in the middle east will only come after the terrorists that i mentioned are dead i.e. King Choota Hussein, Hosni D*ck Mubarak and King D*ckullah of Saudi. High level diplomacy? Have you ever heard of the Rafah border? Hosni Mubarak can open it with one twitch of his old di*k. Send an e mail about that asking for him to open the Rafah border so the suffering can be relieved. Have you ever heard of Saudi international pressure i.e., stop producing oil, or start moving world capitals to mobilize aid for the poor people of Gaza? Why dont you send an email for that? And King Hussein of Jordan, well he is busy doing the who*e… I appreciate your concern for the Palestinians and if you have any relatives that live there or have died i am sorry for that, but i am not going to sit quiet when stupid emails are sent around trying to tell me that Israelis are killing Gazans. What’s new? The ground level situation only changes when some high level diplomat decides to change it. If the enablers are the same people that are jetting around the world trying to stop it, what is happening is what you get. Maybe Hamas has learned something from Hizbullah from 2006. Thats your only hope. For right now, the Arab govts and OIC have given Israel a blank check on Hamas while they enjoy Pamela Anderson in Sharam-al-Sheikh. Israel is not going to end an operation because you are pissed. I pray for the Gazans as well and probably know more Palestinians (besides Krystle maybe) than a lot of people on this e-mail. Believe you me, my Jericho Palestinian is not crying at all. We all saw a very funny movie this weekend and she wants you to know ‘Hamas are animals’. I dont say it, she does. Thats why i said, i dont see any fire storms in the West Bank; When i do i will join the chorus. For now why *jaan na pehchaan Bari Khala salaam* ? ..

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Is Imran Khan the new choice of agencies (ISI) in Pakistan?

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The Taliban atrocities against innocent people in Pakistan and the Israeli massacre of innocent Palestinians. What is the difference?

What do ordinary Pakistanis think?

Ghost of TK says:

The number of Dead in Buner reaches 41.



2 squadrons of F-16 killed 200
1 suicide bomber killed 41

Our condemnations of Israeli actions do ring a bit hollow when we completely overlook the heinous crimes being committed in the name of “Islam” right on our soil.

Mr. Munafiq, head of Jamat “Islami” (Qazi Hussain Ahmed) brushed off the Buner attack yesterday by saying …”oh THAT was only personal rivalry.”

So, now, the blessed jihad factories are producing GPS’s ..ie; “General Purpose Suiciders”… DON”T BLAME ISLAM for it…

We’re like the United States, we just innovate, and then people make their own factories.

India has the NANO and the Space Mission to the Moon, We have the fvcking Jihadi Jacket!

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netengr Says:

No difference people in GAZA and people in Bunair , (Taliban ka inteqaam - BBC Urdu)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2008/12/081231_bunair_hayee_visit_ra.shtml

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we_are_nuts Says:


I do want to point out that i used to defend the Palestinian cause ad nauseum but have changed my mind given the recent situation in Pakistan. If Pakistanis need to do anything for the Palestinians, it is pray. For more than that, Pakistan needs to be at least as strong as Iran INTERNALLY before going out on any adventures.

Pakistani ‘awam’ should also note that it was our great Islami sipha-e-salar General Zia-ul-Haq that went and killed hundreds if not thousands of Palestinians. So if his bakhiajat are here on this forum speweing hate and violence, for the sake of your leader, if you can’t do what he did, just don’t do anything….


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gditpp Says:
December 28th, 2008 at 2:31 pm


Inalillah e wa in alehay rajayoon

World is in the midst of Clash of the Rightist: Zionists, Hindutva preachers, Evalenglical Christian fundamentalisits and Muslim religious fanatics.

Rather than becoming the fooder of a misadeventure, we have to put our house in order and prepare and equip ourselves before taking on others.

We need to stop following the foot steps of militants like Syed Ismael, Mehdi Sudani, Akhwan and its offspring Hammas, Jamaat and its off spring Taleban and the Alqaeda and start following in the foot steps of reformers and modernist like Sir Syed, Jinnah, Mahatir and Bhutto.


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Awais Says:
December 28th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Hamas, LeT, Taliban, Jaish-e-mohammad, Hizbollah, Spiah-e-sahabah, Ikhwan, Jammat-e-Islami, all the different faces of a coin.

Israelis has used this strategy {of Violence} for years it hasn’t worked.

Palestinians has use this strategy {of Violence} for years its hasn’t worked.

So i think they need to change that.
there MUST be someone who could STOP both Isreali terrorists and terrorists of Hammas.


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netengr Says:
December 28th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

Why people do not have the same reaction when taliban or muslim groups kill thousand of people .the same day we have bomb blast in bannu where more then 50 innocent muslims killed by militant .In saudi arabia there is special dua for the destroy of jews .I still cant understand that the life or the human or muslim should be equal .the “zulm ” is either by muslims or jews etc should have the same reaction by muslims

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Awais Says:
December 28th, 2008 at 4:52 pm


yes i agree with netengr

none of these, who are supporting the Hammas and their acts, reacted the same way when a succide bomber killed 180-220 people in Karachi in Oct 2007.

they didn’t gave same reaction when Suicide Mujaheddin killed people at Mariot, Bombay, Wah Cannt, Peshawer or Twin Towers.

‘Zulm’ is ‘zulm’ no matter done by Jews, Christians or faithful Muslims.

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Ghost Of TK Says:
December 28th, 2008 at 5:11 pm


@netengr: Why do you hate Islam? Do you not know that the blessed attackers in Bannu were mujahids who are fighting against the Kuffur of the Pakistani State?

So what if 50 people were killed? They are also collateral shaheed. Also do you not see that the Bannu attack shook the foundations of the Zulm-o-Istibdaad of the Zionist Agent Pakistani Regime? Fully 2 motorcycles (100cc each) were destroyed in this Ghazva.

Don’t be on the wrong side of history! Blow yourself up Today! Offer ends this century. Some conditions apply.

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Asif Says:
December 28th, 2008 at 6:21 pm


Why don’t people condemn all the innocent killings around the world? Selective condemning of innocent killings will not tone down terrorism.

Be subjective wen you define something universal, have the courage & ability to condemn all such acts, whether they are done thru missiles or thru eploding oneself.

Wat is brainwashing? its drilling of brains with selective info. So just decide by yourself the extent to which various people are brainwashed, geographically, ethnicaly, religously…

Everyone on earth is being brainwashed by someone for something good or bad depending on the objective of the brainwasher AND the severiest is wen certain groups of people stop condemning certain innocent killings.

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Utmankhel1 Says:
December 28th, 2008 at 6:45 pm

Just to complete the picture here,

35 shaheed in Buner

2 killed in Waziristan

14 afghan kids among the 16 killed in Afghanistan

I dont know whether to add them to the toll in palestine,s casualties or subtract them from. However, i thought it necessary to be mentioned them as well….. they were humans and muslims as well, though somewhat cheap, as i have read express newspaper and there the headline was 200 palestinians shaheed but when they will write about the Buner’s casualties tomorrow i doubt they would call them shaheed. Let’s see ………

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lofty Says:
December 28th, 2008 at 7:24 pm

What on earth is wrong with Hamas. If they do not have the capability to fight Israel why are they getting innocent muslims killed. Quran is very clear, if Jihad is undertaken by the muslim state, the balance of power between the muslim state and transgressing enemy must not be less than 1:2. In other words, if the balance of power between the two is such that the Muslims have less than half the material power as compared to that of their enemies, then they should avoid aggression and in place of that they should work to improve their power structure to the level of at least half that of their enemies.


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netengr Says:
December 28th, 2008 at 7:47 pm


people killed by militant in bajor,wana,sawat ,etc are far more then people killed in Palestine. but not jihadi mulla condemn ,people got killed in Karachi between 1986 to 1992 are 10 times more then people killed in Philistine .

Casualty figures for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from the OCHAoPt[123]
(numbers in brackets represent casualties under the age of 18)

Year Deaths
Palestinians Israelis
2005 216 (52) 48 (6)
2006 678 (127) 25 (2)
2007 396 (43) 13 (0)
Total 1290(222) 86 (8)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-Palestinian_conflict

116 suicide bombings in Pakistan since 2002 ,Thousand of people killed by so called islamic jihadis and taliban .thousand of people killed by saddam ,iran -iraq war .million got killed by fighting between mujahideen in afghanistan .

1290 people killed in Philistine since 2005 and each incident become big in pakistan where in pakistan people got killed every day and people support the militant and defending them ,


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netengr Says:
December 29th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

-Israel Killed 1500 Palestinian muslims in last three years
-Hammas Killed 300 Israelis jews in last three years
-Osama bin ladin killed 10000 Mulims ,
Hikmat yaar killed thousands mulims .
Mulla Umer killed thousand innocent mulims
bush killed thousands muslims .
Taliban Killed thousands of innocent muslims ,
Baitullah mehsoud is the mass murmurer of innocent muslims
Million muslims killed in afghanistan fighting between so called mujahideen .

Zulm is zulm ,Qatl is Qatal ,either bu jews muslims or any one ,

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netengr Says:
December 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pm

Pakistani muslims killed by taliban has no worth in muslim world .

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FahadAfridi Says:
December 29th, 2008 at 9:46 pm

All those super duper muslims accusing me of not caring about Muslims, do YOU care about hundreds of Muslims killed by ISI backed Taliban? Have you spoken out against your terror army? You don’t care about pukhtun lives, so why should I loose sleep over the lives of arabs? Let your arab shiekhas take care of them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_valley_of_fear

Scenic Pakistani valley falls to Taliban militants

By NAHAL TOOSI, Associated Press Writer Nahal Toosi, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 17 mins ago

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan – Taliban militants are beheading and burning their way through Pakistan’s picturesque Swat Valley, and residents say the insurgents now control most of the mountainous region far from the lawless tribal areas where jihadists thrive.

The deteriorating situation in the former tourist haven comes despite an army offensive that began in 2007 and an attempted peace deal. It is especially worrisome to Pakistani officials because the valley lies outside the areas where al-Qaida and Taliban militants have traditionally operated and where the military is staging a separate offensive….

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