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Friday, 2 October 2009

Love life at LUMS: Does that represent Pakistani culture?



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44 comments:

MÄHÄTMÄ_$E_SHÄHRUKH_TÄK said...

My comments with due appologize with my own Brothers and respected Sisters.

Kia yay kanjeron aour kanjereeon ki academy hay kiya?

Please forgive me for my bad language...

Him said...

If you are not having fun .. let others!

MÄHÄTMÄ_$E_SHÄHRUKH_TÄK said...

@Him

If we let them do "Whatever" they want then un jaisson kay na-jaiz bachay ko toh society nay hee sumbhalna hay na !!!

Usman said...

@him
let them enjoy
hay niga
go enjoy
but then dont leak ur sisters nude pics :P

kinna persuades us

Hoor said...

My comments are very few and hopefully brief
One that youtube video is something I saw several years ago and it is NOT in lums or by a LUMS student.
Secondly, Tajwar you taking pictures of people doing whatever they are doing (im not here to judge whether their acts are correct or not) makes you no better than them. You are violating their privacy as much as they are violating yours.
And thirdly, Tajwar if you had any concern about the repuation of LUMS you would not have made your personal feelings and your interpretation of what society should be like reach public newspapers for people to tarnish the name of a place I once called my home.

-Hoor Jangda

Hasan said...

These photos and video are not of LUMS.....

aimon.fatima said...

Dear Asif Akhtar!!!

only two comments for you since I do not want to cry more at the inadequecy of your reasoning !

a) all of these pictures have been taken from a high school graduation party in delhi (LUMS building had a totally different design)

b) as per LUMS policy, dancing is NOT allowed at LUMS so the given video can not be made at LUMS!!

i would strongly suggest that if you want to pursue a career as a journalist in a good newspaper rather than some cheap evening newspaper, you should research well before writing anything and also you should avoind filtering and modifiying facts according to your own intrests!!

Asghar Hussain Kazi said...

If you wish to discuss this issue at length on this blog, if you really wish that this blog be read by people who would consider and regard its integrity, remove the pictures and videos. They are both insulting and offensive to the values which LUMS stands for and are not representatitve in any way of the LUMS culture.

Aamir said...

Picture/Video are cute, please keep it that way. And bring more pictures like these. Girls are cute and boys too..............

Aamir said...

IJT, Karachi University and General Zia


With brainwashing on the one hand and erosion of academic freedom on the other, the campuses (once temples of learning and enlightenment) have been turned into centres of rowdyism and repositories of deadly weapon. Students belonging to various schools of religious thought, regional and ethnic groups, particularly the Islami Jamiat-e-Tulba (the student wing of Jamat-e-Islami) , have played havoc with educational institutions. Professors were another target of the victimization carried out in this period. Members of the IJT launched a concerted campaign against professors known for their liberal views. In Punjab University, particularly, many professors were forced to resign, others were sacked.

The situation was no different in the Quaid-e-Azam University, Islamabad, which had in the 70s attracted many brilliant Pakistanis who were teaching abroad. As the harassment became unbearable, most of these professors went back. To what extent fundamentalists blocked scientific knowledge can be assessed by one incident at the Karachi University, where a zoology lecturer was stopped from teaching Darwin’s Theory of Evolution. Similar incidents occurred frequently in the philosophy and the economics department. The situation has worsened wit the passage of time. During that period, a policy of appeasement towards the IJT made matter worse. Guns boomed at the Karachi University Campus for the first time in 1979 when, according to Imran Shirvanee, Raja Javed, a supporter of IJT, used a sten gun ‘to tackle the opposition.’ When the pen and free expression are throttled, the only means open to tackle opposition is a firearm. At that time, the IJT was the ruling party in Karachi University politics with Hussain Haqqani, Raja Javed was his close aide.

REF: The Web of Censorship by late. Zamir Niazi published by Oxford University Press.

Aamir said...

Compare the photos!!!

Vandalism and Vandals of Jamat-e-Islami and IJT.

http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/05/vandalism-and-vandals-of-jamat-e-islami.html

buttt said...

ive been here in lums for more than a year but ive never seen these places in lums....
u people know nothing and just blame
tum jese logon ne hi Pakistan ko badnaam kia hua hai
this video is available on youtube from some american university so far i remember and about the pix... that is of sure they are not from lums cause lums has its own way the buildings are designed and no one is built that way

Mohammad said...

The very first thing....the picture above is not that of lums...its of some event in India which in Pakistan is tried to be attached to Lums. Second thing watch your language guys..don't you "parents" tell you what is a suitable language and what not. Can't say more to you guys. Just by seeing some fake pics you are using "Kia yay kanjeron aour kanjereeon ki academy hay kiya?"
Bull shit.......
...Jahanzaib

11020148 said...

This place in the pictures and the video are not LUMS...this is so sad to see the media being incorrectly used to spread such wrong rumours...I am a LUMS student, it is true that these emails did circulate in LUMS. However, these pictures and the video are obviously NOT of LUMS. The LUMS buildings have a TOTALLY different architecture. Nor have I seen the people in these pics and video EVER in my two years at LUMS. People shud atleast verify things before posting them. Spreading wrong words that are lies is not only morally and ethically wrong, but it is also against the teaching of our religion Islam. As for the woman who started this email thread in LUMS, most Luminites think she is an exaggerating attention-seeker who is never happy about anything, and many of them have never noted any such things going on in LUMS campus.

aysam said...

Sigh. Will people not leave us alone.

Umer said...

THE PICTURE AND THE VIDEO IS NOT OF LUMS....THE PICTURE IS OF SOME COLLEGE IN DELHI..and THE VIDEO DOESNT BELONGS TO LUMS EITHER....VERIFY THE SOURCES FIRST OF ALL BEFORE POSTING THEM....

geogil said...

This shit is not from LUMS, first of all..this is an open propaganda to damage and bring down LUMS reputation...One should verify the source first then...this is all bull shit just to defame LUMS...
for God sake have some sense...!!!

Ali said...

As mentioned and reiterated above, the pics and video are NOT i repeat, NOT from LUMS. The mere fact that the author of this article had the gall to propound false evidence says much for the credibility of his statements.
If you want people to listen to you and believe what you say, write something genuinely informative instead of some sensationalist bull decorated with random pictures and youtube videos.
This is not how you show your concern for society. This is simply propaganda spewed out to defame LUMS. Go get a real job and waste your time somewhere else!

Muhammad Usama said...

I dont see this sort of background ever in LUMS this is bull shit. These pictures are not from LUMS. There is no such place/background in LUMS where these Girls & Boy are standing & this VIDEO is also not from LUMS because there is no evidence prooving that this video is shooted in LUMS... If challange u that u have no authentic prooves showing that these are from LUMS.If u have then show them also....

Shahzad Ahmed said...

This is ridiculous. Trying to pile dirt on the reputation of LUMS and harming its prestige. Anyone who is even remotely familiar to LUMS knows that the picture/ video have not been shot in LUMS (just take a look at the background) nor do they contain Luminites.
Blindly hurling accusations and pointing fingers on the basis of non-credible sources is becoming somewhat a habit of our nation. Before you slander the reputation of the leading institute of education I would ask you to cast away your ignorance for one moment and actually try to verify your claims. Only then will you realise that this whole article is mere ludacris

saba said...

well we surely know how credible dawn or its journalists really are,,,,And how unprofessional Asif Akhtar really is,,, even if he didnt research at all before uploading the videos and pics,,,he could have used his common sense,,,wat a shame!!!

secret said...

Credible rumours are miss.Tajwar lost her virginity while in her second year and got dumped by her boyfriend in her third year.
She later on started becoming radicalised and by her last year decided to become Miss Taliban.

Ali Irtiza said...

I, for one, shall cast my vote in favor of what Ms. Tajwar has said, however, before winning my vote, she'll have to pen down a similar blog castigating those who roam not only around lums, but from Khyber to Gwadar in their meter-long beards, or in case of women, cloaked head to toe in various colors of coffins, though they claim life. The Public Display of Religion.

I think in this case, Ms. Tajwar first needs to know what culture means; and if the knowledgeable-self by any chance does know, then we the not-so-learned need to have the privilege of knowing it through her as well.

If Ms. Tajwar knows what culture means, then let me pose another question: Your Excellency, are you sure that there exists something as 'Pakistani Culture' out there? What do u refer to as our culture? The Indian legacy? The Arab heirloom? The Persian vestiges? The Central Asian remains? Or this welter of modernism at your banks that you are so afraid of? What is your culture?

I wish ours was a boiling pot where a proper and refined amalgamation of these cultures could have been achieved. However, mine is a mere wish. This indeed is the dilemma of almost all post-colonial societies, especially those that lack any indigenous past to ascribe to.

Let me tell you what you are trying to stop, is the inevitable. Call it the callous course of history, or accuse the intrinsically evil human instincts (if so). This is bound to happen. Take lessons from Iran, or for that matter even the West. If not more, at least 600 years of European History shall teach you much to understand things better.

In order to understand the present, and forecast the future, you need to read and comprehend history first. History - I said, not a single history book. Not a tunnel-vision discourse of history.

I can do nothing but laugh at the poor souls who I see being crushed and squashed by the 'indecency', 'moral decadence' and 'degeneration' of the society. I pity them. For they are trying to fight the historical process ought to happen. The best you can do is to build a dam. And doing so (just as you have been doing) through power, through myths, through religious fallacies, or through manipulation of the collective common sense. But remember, you cannot fight change. Change that might well be for the good or even the bad, which themselves are again very much subjective concepts.

Ours is a nation (wrong word) of ignorance. A child of darkness. Now consider a 180 million children who've been raised with blind-folds and fed with rotten/expired food. This is our case.

Such children, when they encounter some light, very little of it, for the first time, either close their eyes even tighter, or get blinded by light - something they aren't accustomed to. We have ample of examples of such obscurantists, as well as such wannabes.

Dear Ms. Tajwar, do not expect a cactus plant to grow roses. What you experience today is what you (your ilk) had sown for decades. Now bear with it.

Regards,
Syed Ali Irtiza

idree said...

It's tragic indeed that an otherwise educated segment of society is fast falling into the trap of an essentially evil, dangerously detrimental puritanical belief. It's clearly because the conservative forces of this religion (read reactionaries) have taken a great lesson for the deadly mistakes the Church had committed. The mistakes brought about the Renaissance. The pomp and revenue which the Church lost in the result of this slightly unexpected this cultural, scientific and economic revival forced the puritans and moralists to be wary. What followed was their conscientious efforts to suppress any such revivalism through falsification, and when need be, through force. Darul ulum Deoband is the most glaring example of it. How they radicalized the vulnerable section of society makes a special mention in the annals of history. Paradoxically, this ultra-conservative brand of Islam witnessed its more splendid revival with the Saudi petro-dollar in 80's and 90's. It has not stopped here either. IT continues to 'plague' the society. Case in point is the role of modern vigilante that miss Tajwar Afshin is playing here. What doesn't surprise me is another contradictory element of the ongoing debate: puissant arguements in favor of enforcing this ban on "public affection". Those who endorse the view of Miss Afshin clearly outdo the ones presenting an altogether different take on this issue. This, like I said earlier, is a dangerous trend of radicalization of educated class. Those studying in LUMS should, in no way, start moral policing. Theirs has to be one aim: becoming a social scientist, engineer or banker or businessman. IF they can't do that, they are certainly free to carry sticks like the LAL MASJID vigilantes and implement Sharia; at least in their campus.

VassagO said...

I am a LUMS Alumni from the class of 2006 - and i am absolutely horrified, and incredibly disappointed that this debate even EXISTS in a university of such caliber as LUMS.

1) You are studying at an internationally recognized liberal arts university - and you made the choice to study here - if you feel that you require more of a conservative university environment for your personal progression - do not attempt to repress the masses and instead enroll at a university that holds the cultural mindset that you have.

2) You say:
"if appropriate action is not taken against such incidents then we won't just sit and do nothing,we will make sure that the line of "shame" and of social ethics is not crossed"
Public Space vs Personal Space. The LUMS campus environment is a public space and is not subject to your personal definitions of "personal ethics" nor is it subject to the cultural definitions imposed by pakistani society. What ever culture exists is the STUDENTS culture uninhibited by enforced rules and regulations.

3) Personal Beliefs and their Enforcement on Society. Religion is an incredibly personal affair - and i will not even bring it into this discussion - nonetheless if you have certain beliefs - imposing those beliefs on others by FORCE is at the HEART of the religious extremism debate. No man nor woman can go into your heart and judge what you believe - so do not judge others, pursue your beliefs to the best of your ability BUT LEAVE OTHERS TO THEIR OWN BELIEFS.

This post makes me sad mainly because it is this imposition of an individuals value judgments on other people whether they like it or not. LUMS was never made to be such a place - lums was supposed to be a place where freedom of mind, body and soul could come together and create an environment where people of many different beliefs, faiths, and opinions can come together to discuss in an academic environment - and where no persons beliefs are called into question.

If you would like to be in a place that does not foster these values - then truly i dont believe that lums is for you.

I hope that the student body stands against this tragic state of direct violation of your freedoms - i have graduated but it is your freedom on the line.

VassagO said...

What I guess i dont understand the most is WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? And why do you feel that your "sensitivities" should be taken into account by the entire student body?

And really? Documenting and blasting it for everyone to see? (i wonder what islam has to say about that - you publicizing the business of others without their knowledge) You as an individual have no right to police the student body, you as an individual have no right to determine what is appropriate and what isnt. Hell your blog talks about religious extremism? You and your attitude towards others is the building blocks that religious extremism is built on.

Nasir Iqbal said...

I am horrified that the debate even exists. Whatever happens between consenting adults is their business alone. The university must not and has no basis to intervene. As for the moral police-grow up -do you still believe storks bring babies in Pakistan!

Nasir

e_scape_artist said...

I wrote this blog originally for the dawn blog.. and happened to run into this re-posting via a Google search.. To all those complaining about the pictures and the videos, the original post had none of that and have been added to "sensationalize" the story as some of the commentators have aptly noted.

The people who run this letsbuildpakistan blog should be more responsible if they actually want to "build" pakistan. News channels etc. already have enough sensationalism going on.. my original post was intended as a way to spark a healthy debate which it has in some respects. Just wanted to clarify that the "other" content is none of my doing..

Peace to all.

ben100castle said...

Miss Tajwar and her moral policing band.

If you dont like something dont stand there and take pics. ALso, I am a LUMs alumni, by any standard i was considered v convential and conservative, and w witnessed PDAs as well. But it did not bother me. Cause unlike you and your band of brother/moral sisters or whtever, I donot have repressed psycho-sexual issues. If somebody's hands are in someone's capris...isint it easier to walk away, rather than stand there on ooogle them....you have some serious issues. all i can say is you are an over-controlling freak. I feel sorry for a husband (cz u will never have a bf) you will have, and poor kids that you will reproduce. You are one disgusting woman.

Black Scorpion said...

Good shot tajwar! It truely captures the spirit of the moment. the colors and the framing is also very nice. :D

Neo said...

I , too, am an Alumini of a well reputable university like vassag0 and other friends.
I am neither a moralist nor do i am a social worker for teaching you people the underlying principles of society on which it is based.
I dont have slightest of idea that how come you people are so much liberal in your so collad modarate ideas about PDA. Tajwar Tashfin is right in her point that no one has the right to spoil any ones freedom, if the person showing public display of affection has the right to do so then Tajwar should also be given freedom by providing those PDAs a separate place where they can show what ever affection they want to show in a much better and realxed manner .
It is very much incendiary for a normal person to digest such a flagrant public display of affection from mentally people .
The advocates of the liberty in comments above mine should keep in mind that they would not bear being onlookers once one of their own female family members is being given a public display of affection in front of them by a guy or may be the bus driver of the LUMS university.
Freedom For All.

Abdul Nishapuri said...

asif: an explanatory note has been added to the bottom of your blog.

ben100castle said...

@ Neo
no actually i dont have a problem with my sis's bf giving her a peck on her cheek...for me its a human expression of love and affection.
what i dont understand is that why we end up bringing sisters and mothers as a final pathetic argument...."ghairat" kai muqbarai per na-uqlee or jahalat kai kalay phool churha ker is koom nai pata naheen kis rah per jana hai.

i thinmk what @ali irtaza said....and @idrees said....is too much for intellectual and moral dwarfs like u to understand and fathom

which prestigious univ are u talking abt? UET? Punjab Univ? Khyber Univ? Mardan Univ? what have these univ done in last 50 yrs in the field of science in technology. what is H-index of these universities?....oh of course...jamat-islamee is busy monitoring in these universities that girls dont address boys....thats all we care abt.....i think what is happening in pakistan today is exactly wht we desrve...cz if u have a "right" to police others...than talabaan has the right to blow our children in schools cz we dont follow their version of islam...bravo....well said....u ppl will never understand what a heavy price u shld be ready to pay for intellectual stagnation, and need to "CONTROL" others lives...we have to control "moral" behaviors of other....

LOL...God gave humans freewill....he said "chose" and i will decide....but ppl like NEO want to be more than GOD....they will not letus CHOSE...and they want to decide before GOD.....what a pity....

long live jahalat and talabaneeit in Pakistan..bravo bravo bravo.....

ben100castle said...

In this video two ppl were found in a house, seems this was staged or it can be real

I am posting it here specially for Tajwar and her "civilized" followers....chnioi, Asif subhani, neo etc etc....

This is what these people will condone, and probably do.... Long live jahalat....and interfernce in personal affairs....Tajwar....i see you in these stupid women....THATS YOU...this video is dedicated to u and yr stupid band of moral brothers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSApjT9vU2U&feature=player_embedded

echo said...

ملا نے سکھایا اک سیانی کو سبق

کسی زن کے قریب آے نہ کوئی نر

ہے اک یہ ہی رب کا امر

اسی پر تو بس کرنا فکر

اسی پر دین ہے قائم

اسی سے ہے روسّں قبر

اسی سے بنیں قومیں امر

کسی زن کے قریب آے نہ کوئی نر

ہے فرنگی کا مکر Freewill

دخل ذاتیات ہے رب کا امر

بازارمیں بہن کو جوتے لگا کر سوچتا پسر

سوات کا واقعہ ہے قوموں کا فخر

لگائیں زنا بالجبر پراندھی بچی کو کوڑے اگر

تو پھر بھی نہ کرے کوئی فکر

کہ عقل کا استعمال ہے گناہ کبر

یہ قیمتی ہے صرف تو اسے نہ کر

بس ھاتھ میں تو اپنے اب پکڑ

اک موٹا سا ڈنڈا ذرا

اور جا بجا گھنٹی ہر اک کہ گھر

کھل کہ تانک جھانک تو کیا کر

کہ کسی زن کے قریب آے نہ کوئی نر

ہے یہ ہی اک میرے رب کا امر

جو تیرا ہمسایہ گیا بھوک سی مر

کیوں تجھے ھوتی ہے فکر

گر گیا راہ پر جو کسی کا پدر

تو کیوں کر کرے کوئی فکر

بیاہ دے قرآن سے بیٹی اگر

نہ تو پھر بھی کوئی کرے ذکر

چھین لیا کسی نے کسی کا در

بس پھر بھی نہ تو ہو مضطر

یہ سب معاملات کہ تو ہو غافل ذرا

کہ آ سکے زن کہ قریب یہ مردود نر

جھوٹ چوری رشوت سب پر تو کرنا صبر

بس کسی ناری کہ قریب ایے نہ نر

کہ اسی سے بنی قومیں امر

سائنس کی کبھی نہ تو کرنا فکر

معاشیات کا بھی نہ کوئی کرے ذکر

اور فنون لطیفہ ہے کیا مکر

کس نے کہا ہے کہ یہ ہے کوئی ہنر

اورانسانیت میں ہے نہیں کوئی ثمر

جب آ گیا ناری کہ قریب کوئی نر

(By Malia RH, LUMS ALUM)

Hamza said...

First of all congratulations, you are probably enjoying many visits on this blog (everybody just loves conspiracy).
Second of all, my personal opinion about this issue and article is that its very immature. you say that aunties circulate rumors about LUMS, so who is a hypocrite here, the aunties that don't have anything better to do or the people who simply don't give a damn about that. Also we believe in (at-least I) democracy, and in democracy evolution is a common phenomenon, even with culture, whatever you have stated just seems to be a desperate attempt to save what you believe in.
Now what is the problem? the problem is that people like you do not get the concept of tolerance, nobody said that you shouldn't recite holy quran in the open (even if someone did say that he/she is completely ignorant, to say the least). Tolerance means accepting diversity of people and their thoughts, whatever actions they pursue due to their attitudes, if they do not harm the society in any meaningful way, then they are subjects of tolerance (please don't say that you get emotionally offended just by looking at it, that just points towards your insecurity). So the problem with everyone and our society is that we can not tolerate and we like to impose whatever we think as right, this is the real horror of a mind(as someone stated here the Big Brother Phenomenon, life in fear), which we have seen in-acted upon by many of our leaders (most of them) and the result, Pakistan still stands where it was. I think i need not say more, but only if we remain this way, then it wouldn't be of a shock to me that Pakistan fell. Because a nation is never build upon hypocrisy, rather it is destructed upon so.

owais said...

Dude i don't know who you are.. and what's your purpose here to show this on the web.. but i'll agree with most of the people above that ITS NOT LUMS.. even though i am not a lums student. but i have been to Lums on a number of occasions. Its not like some part of amsterdam like you describe it here. Its a normal place. I never saw any inappropriate behavior in public. i can even say that you'd find Karachi University worst than lums (if you think it is an indecent place in the first place). and finally.. even i know that the picture and the video is not of any lums student. in picture.. in the background you can see a white building.. and i can assure you that there is NO WHITE BUILDING in the entire campus or near it!!!!!... you basically dude you are delusional

sherazer said...

Whoever wrote this stuff is a big time looser who pokes his nose in other people affairs...
People like you are just jealous cause you guys don't have anyone to give yourselves proper attention...
Anyways as far as LUMS is concerned...
I've never seen these kinda inappropriate scenes there plus these pictures are so not of LUMS...
Looser if you can't get any attention please don't interfere and poke your nose into happy people lives...
Live and Let live...
Everyone has to answer for himself so be good!

Faria said...

When I heard about this controversy I was shocked and saddened. But when I read Tajwar's little letter with her warning of reader discretion I am just angry. THESE are the PDAs she was so scandalized by? A chaste peck goodbye? A little petting? Basic Physical contact? I seriously thought she had witnessed some R rated action on the campus but this isn't even PG-13. This is how human beings connect with each other.
If you are offended by people holding hands what's next? Sitting next to each other? Smiling? There is no reason for you to be intimate be with another person if thats what your faith tell you to do but does you faith tell you to make others feel small dirty and cheap? Well, it didn't work. Enjoy your voyeuristic tendencies.

Majid said...

Tajwar ur act only describes "y not me", u r jealous of the kissing- and the kissed-girl.

Ali Raza said...

This is definitely Institute of Business Administration's (IBA)conspiracy to bring down the name of LUMS. And evidence also suggests that The IBA is a 'RAWian' organisation with its evil roots in Indian RAW headquarters. They want LUMS to become the breeding ground for fundamentalists where courses such as 'bomb making 101' are introduced. I am with Mr. Zaid Hamid, I vehemently support his anti-zionist views and I will not allow this to happen. Never. Ever.

Wahhabi Backward Mullah said...

People who are condemning the Original Poster against taking pics of such amazing moments of sex-gymnastics are employing an argument that is based on delusions. To summarize, the argument is that the original poster (OP), tajwar in this case, is breaching the privacy of others. Hey, they are not called PUBLIC displays of affection for no other reason except that they are done in the public? If they are being done in the public, anyone HAS the right to take pictures or make videos. Its a public domain and the concept of privacy in a public domains hold little, if any, ground. Yes, you can call it policing or natural sight seeing. The onlookers have every right to record ANY public display of affection or be it hatred. Just like a public onlooker has the right to record a terrorist activity, this activity does not offer any privileged rights to the love-birds involved in an affectionate act. If they are enjoying it, let the viewers enjoy too.

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Bisma said...

ohh God its terrible...i hate such kinda girls.
i also belong to a very conservative family n i study in a university too... i do believe that i should not do such things because its wrong...but i will never take a picture of a person doing that..because its my ethics and its my duty to follow it ..i cant defame anyone just because i dont like it...?
i truely believe that no one has right to interfere in other's life ..or Publicising someone in this way...what u wanna prove...that u r soooooo pure n u r jannati ..can anyone say that he is 100% perfect .. we all are sinners (intentionally or unintentionally) we should ask Allah for our forgiveness...u should first relook ur moral character...
ihave seen many such QUOTED INSTANCES in market...but i never stood there to see people doing such things...n specially i never took picture because some aunty is saying something or my dad is reluctant to send me uni.....ufff its ridiculous i must say...shame on u instead.....

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